119. Why creating value-driven content may be limiting your impact

00:00:00

Hello. Okay. This episode, we actually wanted to extend on the last one. The last one we had Roberto Blake on as our special guest, and he talked about quite a few interesting things, actually. He's just. We always joke every time we see Roberto that we're about to be in for his TED talk. It's like Roberto's TED talk because he has, like, so many great opinions, and he is such a. He's so articulate. Articulate in the way that he shares them. So if you missed that episode with Roberto last week, definitely go back and check it out, because I wanted to use this episode with Bonner to actually pull on one of the threads, I guess, that he kind of weaved in that episode. And it's really around the question that asked him, which is, like, what does value actually mean to him? Giving value? Because that was a big thing of, obviously, what he was talking about was, like, we have to be giving value. That's actually what our audience is looking for. You know, we hear that in, I think, definitely Alex homozy, which you follow him and Layla. He really popularized the whole just give everything, literally whatever people would pay you for, just give it, and they'll actually pay you more for more things. Right. And so this whole concept of, like, giving value and just giving has really become, I would almost say it's, like, kind of like the trend in entrepreneurship these days. And so. But what I really wanted to dig into was almost what that actually means and looks and tastes and smells. And when you touch it, what does it feel like? Because it's sometimes easy to say value, but value means so many things to so many different people. So I'm really excited to dig into that conversation. Hello. Hello.

00:01:51

We're back.

00:01:51

All right. Okay. So I want to talk about this concept of value, because I think value has become the way, like, if we can give value to our audience, that's the way that we can. Almost from a sort of dollars and cents perspective, that's how we can extract value from our audience by way of, hey, pay us.

00:02:09

Yes.

00:02:10

Right. So I think maybe, why don't we just jump into Roberto's thoughts on what or definition of what value is, unless you had any other. Anything else.

00:02:20

No, no. I'm excited to get into this conversation.

00:02:22

Okay, cool. Awesome. All right, so we'll start with kind of almost. He started when I asked him, okay, what does value actually mean to you? And his first response was like, it was all about extreme, radical candor and transparency. In fact, he said transparency to an absurd degree.

00:02:40

Just that makes me uncomfortable, but in a good way.

00:02:42

It already makes me uncomfortable.

00:02:44

I know.

00:02:44

Yeah. Yeah. And then he did dive into a lot of other characteristics, I think, of content creators and entrepreneurs who give value in their content. But even as we were talking about what those mean, it kind of felt like it was wrapped up in this probably one overarching concept of extreme, radical candor and transparency. And I kind of. This is a really interesting conversation to be having at this time because even in a couple of episodes ago, we spoke about the feedback that we got from Dennis Yu on our organic content, on the social media posts that we were doing. And we always laugh, and now we use it as shorthand internally to be like, okay, let's be a little bit more heavyweight.

00:03:23

Stop doing lightweight stuff.

00:03:25

Yeah. Because definitely some of the feedback was that we do tend to be on the lightweight side, which is kind of like, yes, it's our personality, because that's just, we like to be fun and funny and things like that. But a part of me also thinks that that's also shying. It's us kind of shying away from this concept of extreme, radical candor and.

00:03:46

Transparency or just having a very wonderful. Because it's not that those things aren't true, it's just not bringing the other dimensions that are also true.

00:03:53

Yeah.

00:03:54

Choosing the one dimension to show which as funny or as fun, as uplifting as it can be, again, just doesn't create that depth with your audience. Yeah. Very, very good thing to aim for.

00:04:04

Yeah. So there's kind of, like, a couple of things here that where now, when we look at grappling with. We are grappling with this. Right. But this is important because, again, we're here to win the content game, and I think all of us, I mean, we're in it playing with you. We've kind of, you know, had some coaches, some, like, you know, great conversations with great coaches to be like, okay, this is maybe where we can focus our game on right now, our training, like, whatever it is, because as I said in, I forgot what episode number it was. But if you want to listen to the one, the third episode in the series with Dennis Yu, we literally spoke. We spoke about, gosh, what do we speak about? We speak about a lot of things, but, like, it was really about we needed to lay the foundations of just, like, showing up to training, showing up to the game, just doing it consistently. But now it's time, I know, definitely for us to level up, and leveling up means how do we become more heavyweight in our content? So how do we go deeper? And part of going deeper is actually what Roberto was talking about, which is this extreme, radical candor and transparency, which, if that is what value is, then it's actually what we're doing, then is we're actually providing more value to our audience.

00:05:14

Yes. And I think just on that point, as you were saying, that I think Roberto's invitation to us in bringing candor and transparency into the cause, I think to your point, because it's been. Value has been such a bandied about word, especially with content, that we, a lot of us, when we do it, we dehumanize ourselves 100%. It's very much about. Yeah, like, let me just give you the answer for what you're looking for, which is great, because people do love that. But it's very much like, you know, either, yeah, we completely do not include ourselves as part of that at all, or we kind of that person, this ivory tower that has the value, and it's just giving it to you versus truly building that human connection. And I think that's why, like, value content can be a bit of a cop out sometimes. And I'm not necessarily calling someone out on this, even for us, because you're just like, okay, well, just give them the answers. This is what they're looking for.

00:06:05

Right.

00:06:06

And then that will help me build credibility. And then, to your point, it becomes very transactional.

00:06:10

Yeah. And even that is 100% how I think about it. I was going to say used to think about it, but actually, unfortunately, I still do think about it in that way where it's like, okay, well, let me give you the strategy. Surely the strategy is the value and the three steps to implementing that strategy. If you listen to my old episodes of grow, my podcast show, and even the e commerce podcast we had before that and things like that, it was all about the episodes where, like, yep, we can start with a bit of a story to try to create that connection. But even then, it wasn't, to the extreme, radical candor and transparency level. It was just like, let's just tell a story that kind of ends to the point where you had that, an epiphany, which will give you credibility. Like, you know, put you on a credibility pedestal so that you can give the value, quote, unquote, which is a strategy, three steps type thing. And, oh, my gosh, I am so, so guilty of that. And I feel like actually all of the coaching because that's what we get taught, right? Like, this is actually how you create content. You start with your story, then you.

00:07:12

I was gonna say you took someone's valley content to implement the valley content.

00:07:16

Yeah. Seriously. And now I feel like now, interestingly, if you attended uprising, we, you know, Jenna, who's the CEO of Grouptrack CRM, spoke about her uprising moment, and she's kind of in this phase now of just stepping back and looking at the industry at large, and it's really the coaching industry at large. And going like, this is a reckoning point for everyone in this industry. You know, there was, like, we had a, like, it was good times, right, from, like, when Covid hit good times for the coaching industry, like, huge growth, and then all of these concepts got popularized around. Yeah, this is how you give value, and it's all about the strategy, and it's all about your expertise, and it's all about. But now I feel like that's swinging back around to be like, actually, it's not. No one wants to listen to the person on the top of the mountain necessarily talking back at them, down at them, telling them what to do. It's like, no, we actually want to listen to people, follow people who are extremely real about where they are right now, even if they're not, if they haven't made it.

00:08:18

Yeah, I think this is actually, as you were talking, I realized, I think we all have to make a very specific decision at this point, especially if you've come from, I guess you were talking about that era of being coached into this and to not take this as just another coaching moment where it's like, oh, okay, well, now it's no longer about just giving value. It's about being transparent. And. And I think that can lead to a lot of performative transparency and performative candor versus, like, actual candor and actual transparency. So it's almost, if you find your brain going to, okay, this is a nice little how to that Deidre's giving me right now.

00:08:50

Okay.

00:08:50

I need to now no longer just tell the story. I need to have an element of transparency. We, again, are taking this as the wrong lesson. I think we have to make a decision that this is not something we do. It's who we are. And if you're not quite there yet, then that's okay.

00:09:04

That's okay.

00:09:04

That's the work we need to do. Because, like, as every personal development person will tell you, we act in accordance with our values. Even for people that say, I don't really have values, or I don't really have words that I put up on my screen, on my screen saver, you know, I'm not that guy. We all have identities, right? That we will do anything it takes to uphold. And to your point, you're someone that gives value, and then you just kind of go do it in the way that you think is the best. But now you're like, no, I'm a person who is always radically transparent, as best as I know. And, you know, very, very candid about how I share it. Like, I am that person versus. I do that because that's what's now gonna get me cut through on the contents.

00:09:45

Oh, man. And this is hard. Okay. All right, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we're back, we're gonna actually start to talk about. I feel like it's gonna become a bit of a therapy session, to be honest, about the.

00:09:54

Maybe tears. I don't know.

00:09:55

Yeah. Like, how we. And I don't mean a how, as in the he's a three, Stephen. How to, but more like, let's talk through how we actually bring this to life, because this is tough. All right. Anyway, we'll be back soon. Okay. So I feel like I had a good 30 seconds to take a bit of a breath and be like, oh, gosh, this is gonna be incredibly uncomfortable. Okay, let's. No, but for real. And we're not gonna figure it all out right now, but this is kind of the starting point. This is us, I think, giving ourselves permission to, like, how do we truly step into this place? And now there are going to be, like, with everything. There are levels of it, right? So some people, as Bonna said, might be like, this is not for me. Like, I am not going to be that extreme, radical candor and transparency person. Like, you know, even the way that Roberto describes it, like, for him, it means. It could mean something else to some of us. And so those are the levels. For example, Roberto mentions that he shares his, like, tax reports and things. Like, it's a bit.

00:10:58

To an absurd degree.

00:10:59

It's an absurd degree, right? And I'm like, okay, I don't think I'm there yet. And it may just be because with my upbringing, it was always very, like, anything financial related was very much, you know, guarded. Well guarded.

00:11:12

Shrouded in secret.

00:11:13

Yeah. Like, that was just in the asian culture. That was just the thing. So I just don't think I'm ready for that kind of extreme, radical can and transparency. So then. And some people also might be in the same boat, and that's okay. But some people might be like, actually, you know what? I have no issues with sharing my revenue numbers and my, all of that.

00:11:30

I want to grow into that space.

00:11:32

Yeah. Then awesome. Like that. You know, that's definitely a path that you can take in because there is actually a lot of value in people seeing your journey from like the, rather than you just talking about it, actually showing the data behind it. Right. So this is also a place for us to decide and give ourselves grace as well as to what we can be okay with. And what is going to is like, oh, like, I'd love to be able to get to that point, but I just don't think that I can go like zero to 100.

00:12:00

Yeah, and that's okay, too, because you're going to do it in another realm, I think. Because just as you were talking about that, one thing I reflected on, I think where the difference in transparency can come into it or when you really know, I think you're being radically transparent is if we use that example of like, sharing numbers. I know that. Speaking of uprising, Austin shared his story, which I really loved, and he spoke about because he is very transparent on his social media about his numbers and kind of like, you know, he does regular updates in terms of follower numbers and revenue numbers and things like that. But what he said in uprising, where he had that realization, that recognition is important to him, like, to me, that was a radically transparent and candid moment where he said, look, that might not be the popular thing to say. Cause everyone's pretending like they're not driven by these things and maybe people aren't, but I just know that me, I'm driven by this and it does matter to me no matter what people say. And that's why I share. To me, that means more. Or it adds a level of depth to the numbers he's sharing. So that when I see the numbers he's sharing, I see that with a new light now. Yeah, I can see that. It took him courage. It doesn't take him much courage to share his numbers like it might do for you. Yes, but the fact that he went that extra step to say, the reason I do this is I've done a lot of self work and I've realized this is important to me. Rather than just seeing this as another person who's gloating about their success, I see this as someone who's like, wow, you know, he wakes up every morning, he looks at these numbers. This is how, what juices him. And he's become vulnerable enough and candid enough and transparent enough to say, this is why I do this, because this is me now. I know this person better. I can see it took courage for him to say that.

00:13:41

Yes.

00:13:41

Cause he didn't need to say that. And it can be unpopular for some people to say that. Right? Yeah. I think that to me was like, oh, this is the difference beyond the content we're sharing. It's. What's the. Almost, like, the reasoning behind it. It really, really helps, I think.

00:13:57

Yeah, that's like. And this is the thing my brain goes straight into, like, oh, maybe we can create a framework out of this. Like, let's determine what are our drivers. Are you externally driven or internally driven? Okay, I'm gonna stop doing that. Yes, exactly. I'm gonna stop doing that. This is like, this is a problem. I think it's an addiction. I need to. Okay. So I'm gonna try to roll that back because, you know, that might be a value. I do actually think that would be a value to people.

00:14:23

Note this down.

00:14:24

No deal. But I do wanna cause. Yeah, I wanna really try to grapple with the hard value. Cause you mentioned courage, and that is actually also what Roberto mentioned in terms of. That is like a driver of value. Right. It's like, courage is valued, sacrifice is valid. And sometimes sacrifice can be like, I feel like courage and sacrifice are kind of like both one side, the same coin type thing. Right. Because it's like you have to sacrifice.

00:14:52

You're so on point with your almost there metaphors.

00:14:56

People know what I mean. People know what I mean.

00:14:58

You're very consistent.

00:14:59

Yeah.

00:15:00

Sorry I ruined the moment. You were saying they're two sides at the same point.

00:15:04

Yeah. Where, like, you kind of have to have courage to sacrifice and you have to almost sacrifice yourself to find courage. Right. So it kind of almost doesn't surprise me, like, that Roberto went down that path because all of these things, even when I'm like, okay, how do we become extremely radical? I actually. And transparent. It's like, I kind of actually don't want to have this conversation because I know that it's going to take the courage. And it's hard.

00:15:32

Yes.

00:15:32

It's always hard whenever you have to step into something courageous. Right?

00:15:36

Absolutely. And I think to that point, knowing, I think we all know what we're sacrificing in that moment. So the way that I know when we were talking about it before we got the hit the record button, courage and sacrifice is required in order to be the person. That's radically. Because I think people who are, like, transparent and candid, they don't each time, because there's levels to this right. You might be really comfortable talking about whatever, and then something else happens and now you want to talk about that. It's an ongoing thing. You don't just then switch on and become a candid and radically transparent person. There's just more and more things to be transparent about or things you experience. But I think for us, it feels like not pressuring ourselves to your point. To be like that has to be the starting point. I think for us, the way we operate, at least with that content, is always going to be like, we will start with things we want to talk about, like topics we want to talk about. Yes, but almost as an extra step now to say, okay, that's well and good. And normally you would just take that off to say, that's a valuable piece of content. Now people have the three steps to set up their virtual summits. But how can that, like, what is a part of that? That is, you know, what else can we share about that? That's a going to actually make it relevant to someone who's a human versus just someone who's looking to rip content off the Internet. Yes, and that's not always an easy question, but I think asking that question is the main thing. Right, because you're like, okay, why am I even talking about this? Then? In that case, you know, why, like, or I'm just promoting an event that I want people to come to. Like, why am I even hosting this event? Why am I talking about it? It's almost like, what is that internal to your point, though? Like internal driver that either is getting you to do this or you go, there is no internal driver. I'm just doing it because I get.

00:17:13

Told to, because it's, again, part of another three step framework.

00:17:16

And then you just go, I'm not gonna do it. And then you might do a radically transparent post about how you decided to stop doing this thing you've been doing for three years because you had this moment with yourself. I don't know, actually, but it's almost like, I think asking that question versus, I know sometimes when we have these epiphanies, we're like, oh, my gosh, this is gonna foundationally change how I do things. We think we have to have a different starting point, and that's a little bit difficult sometimes.

00:17:43

Yeah. So my mind goes to a couple of different things even as you're talking. Because when I reflect on Captcha Vince live, one of the biggest pieces of feedback from someone who just absolutely loved the event was like, he felt like he came out of that this sounds gonna sound corny. Like, transformed in a way. Like, he was, like, it wasn't just like, yes, there were, like, a ton of expert guest speakers who, you know, went into the how, and it was really. But it felt like a transformational event rather than just a come and learn things event.

00:18:13

Yes. Yeah.

00:18:14

Which to me was like, wow. Like, that's. I mean, that is an amazing piece of feedback, because if nothing else, if we can actually help people step into the entrepreneur or the person that they want to be in order to succeed, then that is a great job. Well done from our perspective. My mind goes to, okay, well, what is almost like, this transformational word is kind of going around in my brain to be like, is that for us to be extremely transparent? Is it about the transformation? But then is it all about the journey? And not just the journey by way of this happened and this happened. This happened, but, like, the actual feelings and emotions and the data that brings those to life. Like, is that what being, you know, transparent to an absurd degree, could that. I guess it's more of a question. Is that what it could look like for us?

00:19:07

Yeah, I think so. Because for us. Because we're not, for example, we're not trying to teach people how to, in this example, put an event together. And in that case, it might be about publishing the journey more.

00:19:18

So.

00:19:18

But to your point, if, like, you know, like, why are we even doing this event? And I feel like now, because we haven't really spoken about this. We're speaking about it live, you know, like you were saying, if that's the emotion that you had, I wonder if then it's. It's really about being radically transparent and candid about the fact that you're, like, I never really, again, even the word. The fact that you use the word corny, and I know you weren't calling the person.

00:19:40

No, no, no.

00:19:41

But, you know, like, you have that association with it. Even that, to me, is, like, an indicator to say, I don't want. I. It makes me a little bit uncomfortable to be that I want to put together a really great event where everyone does their homework. They're like, wow, this is the best information ever. Thank you for the strategy. Right.

00:19:57

Yeah. Who can tell? I'm very much more on the logical, rational side.

00:20:00

And then it almost makes you, obviously, very, very happy and validated. Yeah, but almost, it feels, like, accidental that someone's had a transformation. And I know it wasn't just this person, because I was looking at the. I was like, wow, people really felt it. There were tears at the end of this.

00:20:13

Yes.

00:20:14

And again, you kind of maybe shying away from stepping into that for a reason.

00:20:19

Yeah.

00:20:19

But then, to your point, it makes sense to me now because you're like, your comfort zone has always been. You're the person almost invisibly, ideally, but unfortunately, you can't just gives value in that sense, because that's safe.

00:20:30

Yes.

00:20:30

Whereas this is like, oh, wow. Like, I'm having. People are having, like, an emotional experience in something that I created. Again, like, I don't want to necessarily go into that space, but that's what this event is. And now I'm feeling. Feeling this resistance, but I sort of also now can't unsee it.

00:20:47

So Bono and I were having a conversation over breakfast and to the point of extreme, radical canon transparency, like, it was. I'm going through IVF right now, which I'm actually okay with talking about. I don't know if I'm okay with talking about this publicly, but whatever, it's out there now. And what was really interesting was, you know, I was saying that all through, it kind of feels like. It felt like I hadn't really quite gone through the normal puberty, hormonal experience journey that most women, I guess, had to go through. So it feels like now, at this point of time in my life, it's like it's all hitting me at once. Like, all the hormones and all the hormones, seriously. All the mood swings and all of the feeling vulnerable and just crying randomly. And I'm like, what in the world is happening? I kind of feel like it's like tying in. It's almost like timing is. Call it divine or whatever it is, but it's like, you know, we're talking about this one, and you're making some very, like, very real observations of, like, how I generally approach. It's, like, very logical, it's very rational. This is my safe and comfort zone. Like, I'm not really a vulnerable. Like, all of that. And it's kind of like tying in with the fact that, like, I probably really haven't been, like, I probably really didn't feel things to the depth that, like, maybe other. I'll say, women. Cause men don't have feelings, right? That's what I hear.

00:22:14

You're gonna get canceled.

00:22:15

Men aren't, but it's okay.

00:22:19

We put it in a fun boy, and we're laughing about it, and we're australian, so it's fine.

00:22:25

Oh, okay. Well, then, in that case, I really want to say no, but, you know, so it's kind of like, okay, well, the more vulnerable and stuff that I'm actually almost hormone, like, physically feeling, it's like, how. Like, how do we almost like. Or do we. I guess, is also a good question. Like, pair that with the. How do we just start to break down the logical, rational parts that I've just. Yeah, I've just always had more as my, like, safe zone.

00:22:54

Totally. Yeah, I think you're right. Like, it is divine. Or what is timing. Because now, you know, again, you met these mentors or these. You had these conversations or coaches, whatever we want to call them, peers at a time when I think you're, like, almost, like, physically, in the sense, open to receiving it, like, truly receiving it, versus as another framework. And I think we also need to be mindful that all of that logic isn't a bad thing strategy. These are all really great things. It's just about repackaging them. It could almost be the same content you would have created anyway. But to your point, you can't unfeel stuff now. So you're kind of like, oh, okay. I have this feeling about it or this emotion about it. It almost reminds me of, almost like, a couple of creators in this space where we spoke about Leila Hormozi. I'm a big fan of her because of many things, but the way that she's kind of gone about this is almost like, because she has a very. She's a hard ass, for sure, and even the way she talks and all of that kind of stuff is very. She's very. It's very hard to fault the woman in terms of her logic and all of that stuff, but she speaks very freely about some of the emotional aspects of stuff. And then she also gives you a.

00:24:03

Framework on how to deal with it.

00:24:04

But I think that's almost the freedom that people. Because, again, that's where it feels radically transparent. Because when she did plastic surgery, for example, she didn't make a huge deal about it. She's also very clear to say, hey, I don't have, like, I'm not doing it. There's no one in this coming to my. To tell me I'm already beautiful and stuff. It's like, I think I'm actually really pretty, you know? Again, it's very. Women aren't allowed to say that. Yeah, women aren't allowed to say that. She's like, but I want a nose job because I just feel like I want one and I can do it. Yeah. And again, it doesn't have to be in this, like, super big way, just for her to say, I. Look, I already think I'm attractive. You don't need to tell me that. But by the way, there's also people on the Internet who accuse me of being a man because of the way of my boys. Oh, right. It's just like. And that actually made me feel terrible. And I'm like, oh, wow, this person can be logical and all of that feelings as well, and have feelings that she very easily expressed, but they're still difficult things, if that makes sense. So I think letting ourselves have the paradoxes that we have is also really important. It's not like, just suddenly going to transform into this other person. You're still that person, but you have it. Even you talking about this now, I think. And the other person comes to mind. Sorry. Now I'm like, but the fitness person. Kayla, it seems.

00:25:19

Oh, yes, Kayla. It's science.

00:25:21

It's fine. I actually don't know if you're australian. We should know. So sorry, Kayla. But I remember there was a phase when she was like, why are people asking me about my home and my beauty routine and my makeup routine and stuff? Like, I'm here to teach about fitness. Like, I'm not gonna talk about that stuff. And then now she's evolved to, like, she does all of that again, because she's like, I realize, like, that this is important to me. I actually really like doing my makeup, which you might not expect from someone who's, like, in that space.

00:25:46

Right.

00:25:46

But she spoke. She spoke. I think it was less about now I share makeup content. It was more about, I've had this journey where I thought I had to be very.

00:25:56

Yeah.

00:25:56

But now I don't mind admitting that I enjoy something superficial like makeup, and I'm gonna talk about it.

00:26:03

Right.

00:26:03

It was her sharing transparently the journey.

00:26:05

Yes.

00:26:06

As well as now she does do this additional content, too. So I think it's almost that, like, that's actually what people. And you don't have to share the journey, like, step by step. No, but these realizations. Exactly like, what you're doing now. Because I'm like, oh. Like, I've known you for a long time. We're very, very close. And to me, I'm still getting to know that. Right? Yes. Because you're sharing it now. And I'm like, oh, right, okay. That, to me, is transparent and candid.

00:26:33

Yes.

00:26:34

There is a cost to you right now sharing this. I'm not saying it's debilitating, but I can see it takes courage, and there's a sacrifice of your ego, and there's a sacrifice of whatever else I might not even realize is going on inside you. But then I can feel a liberation. Yeah. It tells me that you're not doing it performatively.

00:26:54

Yeah.

00:26:55

Because you feel the relief almost.

00:26:57

Yeah, I'm gonna start crying. No, no. So, like, no, this is really interesting because even as you. Here comes a framework.

00:27:06

Step one, step two. Or what did I do?

00:27:09

No, but, like, and this is just, I think it's hard, actually, to actually put a framework around this because the more, and this is probably how us, as a coaching or, like, this solopreneur industry has come to this point of, like, you know, of what, of almost a cookie cut template of what value is, is because, like, we do try to create frameworks around some of these things that actually can't. You can't put a framework around it. Yes.

00:27:33

Yeah.

00:27:33

But there are. There might not be a framework, but there might be considerations or questions or things that can help prompt. Yes. Some of this thinking. And for me, even as you were talking, like, one thing that stood out was. Was actually talking about the duality, because that is just, that is actually a very human thing that we forget is human. We sometimes, I don't know about anyone else, but I know for me, I'm like, oh, if I sense that there's, like, inconsistencies in, like, my. And that's the thing, I think consistency seems to be, like, a call it value is something that I've just. Or it's just something that I've kind of always just relied on, I think. And it's like, it's actually the inconsistencies that make us human.

00:28:14

Totally.

00:28:14

Right. So even to the examples that you spoke about, it's like, well, like, Layla can be this hard ass, but she can also be this other person. And Kayla can be this fitness person, but she can also be this, like a. This quote, unquote superficial whatever, like, we all have. We're all multidimensional.

00:28:29

Yeah.

00:28:29

And I think part of being transparent is actually talking about that multi dimensionality and when we have a realization of one of those things opening up, because, again, that's the other thing about being human, is that we're constantly growing and we're constantly finding new things out about ourselves, even if they're hobbies or interests or things that we. Like. Even at this stage, I'm like, I suddenly like things like olives, which I used to hate before. Like, I just could not stand them, but now it's like. And I always joke to ash all the time that he doesn't have to have an affair. All I find is. Cause he's just. He's just married to someone who just changes all the time. Okay. That's just. That's very extreme, you know? But, you know. You know what I mean? Like, so I think it's like, it's even that when you. Maybe not the olives part, but, like, talking about when you make a realization, it's like, oh, actually, this thing that maybe I actually judged other people or whatever about before, I actually kind of, like, this is now also a thing that I enjoy, or this is also a part of me that I've unearthed.

00:29:30

Yes. It was interesting because Ryan Holiday was talking about this, where, you know, one of the difficulties, unfortunately, of being, like I say, a public Persona. You know, take that. What you will is, you know, especially if you have, like, a very. Again, you're, like, the person that takes a stance on something, and I think we all should, but it's like, you know, strong beliefs loosely held.

00:29:50

Right.

00:29:51

It's like you rob yourself of the opportunity to be a person that changes their mind. Heaven forbid.

00:29:56

Yes.

00:29:56

Or. Because, again, you're, like, crucified. And sure, there's, like, some extreme examples, if you're, like, a really popular influencer, for example. But even as a regular human, we put ourselves up to those standards, and then everyone who's following you as part of your audience or buys what you sell is also kind of putting themselves to that impossible standard, when really, if we were all just human and shared, actually, the. Okay, actually, I don't think. I think this anymore. And the old is a really good example, because maybe your palette, literally, your intellectual palette, has changed.

00:30:25

Yes.

00:30:26

But then you can be humble enough to say, I was a bit of a judgmental beep, because I didn't realize that this is what it was. And now, again, I'm not trying to turn this into it. And here's what I learned, the five things. But it's like, this is really what I felt, and I think people don't do that, because, again, we're all incentivized, quote, unquote, to be this person that has this belief or, like, shares this in this way, they're just. Again. And we're not allowed to grow.

00:30:55

Yeah.

00:30:56

Which is weird, because that's all we talk about.

00:30:58

Yes.

00:30:58

What we profess is growth, but we make ourselves stagnant in that pursuit because we're almost like. It costs us our ego to say, I used to think this, but now I think this. It's either not fully evolved or it is, and I may change my mind in another year's time. You know, I think we do it in bits and pieces again when we have a strategy to sell.

00:31:24

Here's the new framework that need to do.

00:31:31

Exactly. And I think, especially for women, even, I find myself having these moments where I'm like. Because I think, to me, that makes me think, oh, does that make me look like I'm scatterbrained? Yeah.

00:31:42

Or like wishy washy or I don't flip flop.

00:31:45

And it's like, no, again, like, strong beliefs loosely held. I think it takes a lot of courage, and this is when it comes to content creation, it's something that we have to be mindful of, I think, is now, in going well, in sharing this, it doesn't have to be perfect, but how do I go that layer deeper versus just, like, sharing for sharing's sake? Yeah. Now I am this wishy washy person because now I just keep talking about all these different things sporadically. But I'm gonna do the hard work to join the dots for my audience to share the epiphany, because that's gonna be my work, and that's gonna be the value. Right. So that they can digest it. Yes. They just didn't need to read an essay of me having all of my streams of consciousness. But it's like, you've done the work.

00:32:26

Yeah.

00:32:26

Try to understand that and put that out there. Yeah. Interesting.

00:32:30

Okay, so, unfortunately, there is no three step framework to how to provide value through extreme, radical candor and transparency.

00:32:37

Does Roberto have one, though?

00:32:38

No, but, yeah, maybe in, like, a few weeks time. Here's a three step framework to just. Okay, but, like, just, if you are listening to this, first of all, we apologize. It was a little bit all over the place. And second of all, thanks for hanging with us. But third of all, I would actually encourage, like, I'm going to hold us accountable to creating content, definitely on social media that. That embodies this. I mean, it might not be perfect, because that's. We're on this journey as well. But if you do want to follow, if you're not following my account, so Deidre shen on Facebook or LinkedIn, definitely go do that and just help hold us accountable to this, to actually living in and sharing in this way. Because this is, I think, for us, the new frontier of, like, how we go from lightweight to heavyweight is through, funnily enough, giving value, which we always thought we were. But, you know, this is another lens of value that we want to step into. So, yeah, definitely, definitely go do that and come be on the journey with us. All right, I think that's done. This has been fun and a little bit traumatizing.

00:33:50

Thankfully, you'll be like, I have PTSD. I'm going to go into a three step framework, for sure.

00:33:55

What is that? It's like defaulting to your habit. Like the things that you're.

00:33:58

Yeah, exactly.

00:33:59

That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm going to do. All right. Thanks so much for joining us. My name is Deidre Shend.

00:34:03

I'm Bonna Rai.

00:34:04

And as always, stay intelligently lazy.