124. Uprising Series: How Alex Sanfilippo chose courage over comfort to build PodMatch

[00:00:00 - 00:01:37]Welcome to episode two of the uprising series featuring Alex Sanfilippo, founder of Podmatch.com. because if you've ever, maybe at some point in your life and entrepreneurship journey, found yourself at a bit of a crossroads in your career, wondering if you should take that leap of faith into entrepreneurship, then today's episode is going to hit home for a lot of you out there. Alex shares the raw, emotional roller coaster of leaving his cushy C suite position to go all in on what he thought was maybe a bit of a passion project. We're going to be talking about things like how he found the courage to even make that leap and why it wasn't as simple as just quitting his job, the financial realities of the tough and the tough decisions that he faced along the way, and what it really feels like to walk out of your corporate job for the last time. And perhaps more importantly, Alex opens up about the pressure of being responsible, not just for his own future, but for his co founders and their families, too. So if youve ever dreamed of starting your own business, but felt a little bit held back by the fear or the uncertainty, then this episode is for you. My name is Deirdre Tshien, CEO and co founder of Capsho, the fastest way to create content designed to help you get more leads. And this is win the content game. How did podmatch start and take us through the journey of you making some really hard decisions that definitely changed the trajectory of where podmatch went?

[00:01:37 - 00:04:16]Yeah, I am super thankful for it is today. And to me, the definition of success in the business is how many people. It's really impacting and serving, and it's doing a really great job with that. And I don't necessarily look at people as, like, a number, but I just think, like, what is the legacy this leaves? And for me personally, am I working myself to death or am I able to have a life as well? And I have the best work life balance I've ever had. And so those are some of the elements of success, if you will. When it started, though, I never planned for it to be what it is today. And I think that any business owner or founder, anybody can say that. It's pretty easy to say on this side of it. But when I first got started, I had the idea on March 10, 2020, I pitched it to two other partners. One's my wife. The other one's our business partner, who's been a long, long term friend. We were in each other's weddings in 2011 and 2012 and draft up paperwork so we legally did all of it. Right. But we started that basically that same day. We started drafting up paperwork and delete. So it's March 10, 2020, and by June 15, 2020, we launched and saw some immediate great traction, which was really, really cool. Here's where the, I guess the issue with the friction came in. For me personally, it's that I had been in a corporate job for about 15 years at that point. 14 and a half. 14 and a half years at that point. And I was doing really well. I had just hit the C suite level. And this is a big publicly traded company, multi billion dollar organization, like the young guy in the room. And I'd, like, pinch myself every day being like, in these board meetings, I'm like, how am I here? Right? Like, how did I get here? And it was one of those things. I worked so hard for so long to get there. And I was, like, reaping those benefits. And that 14 and a half years, that last year of it was actually my best year I'd ever had. And I really applied myself all the way through and worked really hard to get there. But I was doing, like, everything was just firing all cylinders. And it's like, you know, when you're in that sweet spot that you're like, don't change anything. Everything is just working right now. And that's how I felt. And shortly after podmatch launched, we hit this point not overnight, but pretty quick within that first couple months of launching. So this is still end of summer 2020, where I realized a problem. And the problem was me. The problem was my lack of involvement because I was, if you will, the front facing guy, Alicia, handles operations when my business partner slash wife. And then my other business partner, Jesse, he handles all the actual tech, so hes building the software. Hes a developer. And I was the guy sales, marketing, all that stuff, if youll call it that. And it was just the three of us working that time because were still really small. I realized my lack of involvement was directly impacting the size and the growth and the trajectory of the business itself. And that scared me.

[00:04:16 - 00:04:36]Yeah. So can we talk about that moment? As in that realization that you had, like, was it something that was a sudden realization or did you see it coming? And what were you hoping that it would? Because you mentioned that you did have a successful, like, you just hit these milestones in your career and were you kind of a part of you hoping that it was, things just didn't need to change ever?

[00:04:37 - 00:05:29]Yeah, call me naive. At that point, it was something I noticed over time, but it didn't hit me till a moment, if that makes sense. So like the moment I realized I'm like, okay, this has been happening but it just now is clicking. And leading up to that, my hope was like, yeah, I'm going to be this full time aerospace guy. I've got great perks, I'm doing really well and I'm able to work a few hours a day on this and it's a super fun project I'm passionate about. And if you look at the income, by the way, the income for the corporate job and the perks like health benefits and stuff like that was very different than what podmatch was bringing at that point. And so yeah, I say now I realize over time, but the reality is it just kind of hit me in a moment and I remember being one evening where im like, why is this not growing faster? Im like, I need to send like these ten emails, lets do it tomorrow. And I was like, wait a minute, Im doing it tomorrow because I dont have time today. Which means thats why its not growing today because I have to put this work off till tomorrow if Im going to have a life and sleep and do both of these things.

[00:05:29 - 00:05:39]That is, oh, that's so insightful that you had that realization because of that moment and you mentioned that you were scared by it. So talk us through, talk us through that.

[00:05:39 - 00:07:04]Yeah. After 15 years in any organization, also not truly being an entrepreneur, I sort of operated like one inside of a business. I think that's what caused me to excel quickly. 15 years a long time, but a big corporation, that, that's pretty fast. Again, thinking about how much older everyone was than I was in that boardroom. Right. I was very nervous that I wasn't going to be a good entrepreneur because I'm maybe a little bit of an overly productive guy. I've always had little side hustles and the goal of most of them was not to bring an income or anything like that. It was just something fun and I always liked it. But really I did notice that a lot of things I'd done the recent years failed pretty quick. I burn out quick. It just didn't work. And so I think I was nervous when I was looking at the cushiness of this job versus the, I guess the unknowns of what a software startup is. And if you look at the data, which I never recommend doing, it's even more terrifying because you're like, basically there's no chance this is going to make it. It's just not possible at this point. And so looking at those two things, I was nervous because of the comfort I was living in. And I definitely was thinking about my wife as well. Like, I do want to provide for her. She had sold a business the year before we started this in 2019, she had sold a business. So she was just helping me out. And when we started this podmatch thing, she started really just working on that. So again, my head im like thats our only income, and pod match is bringing in just a small portion of that. And so the factors were all very much so from the comfort that I had grown accustomed to living in. Thats where all the fears really were bred from.

[00:07:04 - 00:07:14]Wow. Okay. So from the moment that you made the realization, like, what, how quickly did you actually make the decision to go full time into pod match?

[00:07:14 - 00:08:47]I was like, again, I was terrified. So it didn't happen quickly. And I really did fight it. I didn't fight it to, I didn't even voice it to Alicia. I didn't voice it to Jesse, the two other co founders. In my head, I was just kind of stuck in this place. And I realized there's, like, uneasiness inside of me. And whenever I feel an uneasiness inside me, I know something needs to change. I'm either doing something wrong or I'm missing something right. Either way, something wrong, basically. And I was just living in that place, but I didn't really know what it was because it still hadn't fully clicked it. Alex, you need to make this decision. And so at that point, I actually picked up a book, and this was fall 2020, and I picked up a book called High Performance Habits by Brendan Burchard. Really great book. And he goes over the six key principles for high achievers, like what it takes to be a high achiever. And I'm reading through them, I'm like, got that, got that right. Little conceited at that point in my life, maybe. Well, not really. I was really looking at being like, you know what? I actually think I'm doing well with this. And obviously there's learnings along the way. And then I hit one, and the point was courage. And I realized in an instant, when I read that page, I realized I still remember where I was. I was sitting outside in the sunshine. It's like a Saturday afternoon, the only day I was taking off. And I read that. I'm like, this is the ingredient that Alex Sanfilippo is missing. To go from where I am to where I feel that I want to be in life. When I really look internally, like, as deep as I can. The thing I'm missing is courage. And that was kind of that moment where, like, it all clicked. And again, this was fall 2020.

[00:08:47 - 00:09:05]Wow. That in itself, you know, just to admit that at that stage, that was the thing that was missing is huge. Okay, so you mentioned that you realize that podmatch just was not growing fast enough. Like, what does it mean to you? Because, again, we all have different definitions of growth and success and revenue and things. But what for you did that mean?

[00:09:06 - 00:10:21]I just realized the amount of opportunities coming every day and my lack of involvement in them was hindering its growth is really what it meant. So I wasn't, like, looking at money. We need more. We need more. No, I was actually seeing the opportunities coming to us and me just not reacting fast enough to receive them. Right. Like, it'd be like, it'd be like, I'll use a football example in american football, NFL. So the one where you catch the ball, not where you kick it, right. If you're a receiver and you don't turn quick enough on your routes to catch the ball and you, they all hit your back or go right over your head when you could have caught them, you're not getting to your opportunity quick enough. And that's the only reason you're probably missing it. And when a quarterback and receiver have that disconnection, when they have that disconnection, that's where you see a lot of very frustrated players. Like, oh, man. Right. And so for me, I was realizing I was both of those positions more or less, where it's like it's all showing up to me, but I'm not reacting quick enough. And that internal battle showed up. And again, what it was all relating to was my lack of courage to take a leap, to leave the cushiness and the, I guess the money of my corporate job to go into this thing actually had nothing to do with a dollar at that point. The next step did. But leading up to me realizing that I was lacking courage, it wasn't a dollar amount. It was just me seeing there's things being left on the table. And I'm missing, I'm dropping all this stuff, which isn't good for Alicia or for Jesse, that are putting a lot more effort into this than I was at that time. Zachary.

[00:10:21 - 00:10:45]Yeah. And that word courage is like, it's so potent because it gets, I feel like it gets thrown around a lot. But I think until you're in a moment like this, it doesn't feel real. Right. So we then think about, okay, well, that's a missing ingredient. Like, how did you. I don't know, like, switch it on. How did you decide that you are now going to be courageous? Because it's not an easy thing to do. I mean, that's the whole point of courage. So talk us through that.

[00:10:45 - 00:11:30]Yeah, it's a great question. And really what it came down to is I started actually researching courage, which maybe sounds weird. Most people just go to dictionary. Like, here's the definition. I started listening to podcasts that were specifically about courageous, and I don't even remember I heard it, but somebody said, courage means being afraid and then doing what you have to do anyway. And I couldn't seem to take courage until I heard that because it described my exact feeling, which I still didn't realize. I was like, I'm lacking courage. But the reality is I was lacking courage because I was terrified. I was scared. But courage means being afraid, then doing what you have to do anyway. And that moment is when something went off, and I'm like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Pod match is my future, and aerospace, my current corporate job is behind me, and I have to now take that leap.

[00:11:30 - 00:12:10]Okay, so then, I mean, because I know that people are going to be listening to this and they're going to be like, yeah, well, easy for you to say, Alex. You got something successful, etcetera. But it didn't. I mean, obviously, it didn't start that way. So what did it take between you making that decision and stepping into that courage and actually making the things happen? As you said, it wasn't overnight, but I'm sure that you kind of. Cause you always do. You had a plan in place, and it was like, okay, did you feel like you had to hit certain things before you could leave your job? Did you just go, you know what? I'm gonna do the courageous, immediate thing. Put my notice in and then figure it out. Like, what? Yeah, how did that process work for you?

[00:12:10 - 00:15:56]So that would be what I'd call ready, fire, aim. I'm a ready, aim, fire type of guy, personally. So I had this moment. I didn't, like, do anything. Like, I'm out of here, right? Like, and I stormed in the boss office. I quit. Right? Like, and keep in mind, I loved that job. I worked very hard to get where I was. I was still thoroughly enjoying it, having my best year ever. But what I did is at home, I first did the scariest thing of all, which was told my wife, Alicia, and I was, like, sweating, and I'm not, like, really a nervous person, but I was, like, terrified. And so I told her, I'm like, hey, I think I have to quit my job. And she just, like, froze. And, like, looked at me, she goes, really? And I was like, yeah, the writing's on the wall. Like, this is the next step. What are your thoughts? And I just kind of was quiet. And she goes, I totally trust you. If that's. If it's time to do that, then, then do it. And that right there gave me all this boost of confidence. Courage came a lot easier after that. Right? Some of the fear removed because now I'd voice it to somebody else. This is super important, by the way. So everyone listening, watching, catch this voicing to someone else and hearing them say, yeah, you know what? I do believe in you, because I know you. That gave me such a boost to say, yeah, you know what? You're right. But when it's just you, we get in our own heads. No matter how much of an overachiever you are, how productive you are, how. How good you are, analytics in finding the data and the strategy. At the end of the day, when you're known head, for some reason, we're all programmed to tell ourselves, you're not enough. You can't do it, that's not going to be okay. But when someone else. That, again, truly knows you. My wife, right, in my case. But that person who truly knows, he says, I have confidence, I believe you can do it. Let's go for it. Then. That did something. It set that fire in me, and I was ready to go. And at that point, the next step I took, again, I'm a ready aim, fire guy. So what I did is I started thinking, okay, here's what pod match is bringing in, which, by the way, at that point was not enough for us to live off of. Not even close. And keep in mind, there's me, Alicia, one other partner, and that partner has a wife and three kids. We don't have kids. So I'm, like, also thinking about the children, right? Like, literally thinking about the children in this thing. I'm like, what about the kids? Like, they have to eat. Like, how are we going to do this? And it was one of those things where I just busted out. Excel. I like excel a lot. I said, here's where we are. Here's our previous growth, and obviously, there's the law of diminishing return. Let's build a formula that factors that in which this might make people's eyes roll over. You can find financial people that can help you with this stuff, and I encourage you make a small investment to have someone plan this stuff out. If you're saying, Alex, I'm right now where you were at this point. But basically we just kind of did that and said, okay, it's going to take us two years at the current rate, if to actually be back to where we are currently. So my aerospace salary was going to take us two years to reach at that point. How much savings do we have? Do we have enough savings to float? Not really. Okay, how can we budget? Can we tighten up our budget? Alicia? I made the decision to sell one of our vehicles. We dropped to one car. We did a lot of things to be able to say, okay, like, we became minimalists. Without really meaning to. We canceled every subscription. Right. And because the thing is, when you're thinking two years, you're like, oh, but Netflix and Hulu and all that, it's only like $30 a month. I'm like, okay, cool times twelve times two. And every penny counted. And the reality is, that's how I was able to make the decision of, okay, this is okay to do. And I highly recommend, like, don't just go with your feeling and, like, your excitement. Like, after you take the time to do that, do you have something that is. It's even feasible and possible for it to actually replace? And I'll tell you what, like, that practice, once again, Deidre was extremely terrifying to me because I'm like, we've worked really hard to get this cushion right. Comfort. That word comes back up, and now we're going to say, we're going to get down to almost nothing. Like down to pennies before we make this shift. So doing that was a really terrifying part of the process, once again.

[00:15:56 - 00:16:21]Yeah. And I'm sure that another part, you're doing it for the kids. And, you know, we kind of laugh about it now, but it's this, I feel like for founders, you know, CEO's, like, this is actually one of the talked about realities of the job is, like, the pressure that you feel of the people that you have to look after. Because I'm sure, you know, like, you're the face of it. It was your idea. You probably coerced Jessie into doing this.

[00:16:21 - 00:16:31]With you maybe a little bit, but he did actually. He really did believe in it. All right. From day one. But, yes, I probably. I was like, come on, bro. My excitement probably going to be like, eh, work, okay, let's do it right.

[00:16:32 - 00:17:09]Yeah. And then. But then the reality does hit right when you go like, you get past excitement, and then it becomes a real thing where you're like, you have your first customer, your first user, which is super exciting, but then it's like, oh, gosh. Okay, well, now that it's a real thing, we need to actually project this out to be like, how can we give Jesse and his family what he needs? And there's pressure on that, because if you can't fulfill on your part of it, which is, like, the market, like, the growth part side of it, then all of that fails. So how did, how did that weigh on you? How did you work through some of that? Or did you just kind of compartmentalize it and just head down, do what I need to?

[00:17:09 - 00:19:02]I kind of wish it were that where I was just like, yeah, it's all fine. Forget the kids will be okay. They'll figure something out. They eat too much anyway. Let's be real. Right? Like, it was, it was none of that. No, it's, it's pressure. It's weight on your shoulders. And the thing is, I was, I didn't quit my corporate job overnight, and I'd like to get back into that because I think that's, to me, really important to discuss as well. So I had the weight of now making the decision before voicing it to anyone other than Alicia and then Jesse as well, looking at the numbers, terrified by that. But also thinking, I still have a decision to make. And all at the same time thinking, do I actually like this enough to do this full time, long term, to see this through? Because I am taking care of our members, the community that make up podmatch, like, I'm taking care of them as well. Do I like this enough to keep with it? And I think not enough founders ask that question in this process. I think it has to be at this point because all the pressure, when you start seeing dollars rolling, you're like, of course, right. But think about all the pressure, okay? I've got co founders families to feed. I've got a job to still resign from. I can make it financially. Do I like this enough to say that it's worth everything I'm about to set in motion? Because once it's a set in motion, there's no going back. And I think that a lot of us, when we get to that point, the answer for me was yes. Spoiler it was yes, I can do this. I like it. But for a lot of us, the answer is actually no. Like, I don't see myself doing this long term. I just want to get to an exit really fast, and I don't think that's the right foot to step into business full time thinking. I think you have to say, I love this. I'm passionate, I want to do this, but we have to be real with ourselves. And maybe the reality is, let me bring another partner, let me take a side step, let me give up some of my equities to someone else who really thinks they can do this long term, can run with it, and I'll keep everything here. Right. All that pressure on you. Let's release that pressure, and I'll just continue doing this. But let me be a small part and advise in this. And that takes a level of humility to do. But for some of us, that's going to be the right answer. For me, thankfully, was not. But for many of us, that might actually be the right decision.

[00:19:02 - 00:19:31]That's so true. Yeah. Even as you say that, because, like, having gone through it multiple times, I can 100% attest to that. That probably the reason why I've been through it a hundred times is, like, the previous, you know, 99 times, it was probably not the thing that I actually wanted to fully step into. So, yes, I completely stand behind that. Okay, so let's talk about now. Like, let's transition a little bit into when you. You made that decision. You put the things in action. You ultimately, how long did it take for you to quit, by the way, from the tissue?

[00:19:31 - 00:22:04]Yes. It was a public company, so it's. It's kind of sensitive from that regard. So I didn't give a two week notice. And people think this is crazy. My notice was 90 days to keep shareholders happy and to bring in replacements and stuff like that, which was a cool thing. And I was actually fine with that. So I immediately went from, I guess, quote unquote, 40 hours a week. I was salary, so it was really, like 100, right. But I went from, on paper, 40 hours a week down to 30 to 20 to ten over a 90 day period of time, and then was out. And so my last day was December 7, 2020. And that day, by the way, that December 7, I woke up like, man, I don't. I don't know the emotion I felt still to this day, I've never repeated it. Scared, unsure, lonely. Just realized, like, I have a community at this company. People who love me, who. People who are going to be crying when I step into that building that day. Right. And they knew I was leaving. But, like, the reality is, it's not real till it happens. And it was just one of those things it was like. It's just. It was scary. And so I stepped in, and they did all the paperwork, which I had fired plenty of people before I'd seen people retire. So I had been the person doing the paperwork, and someone else that worked for me was doing the paperwork for my exit interview. And they have to follow you out the door 15 years, right, but it's protocol to follow you out the door to take your key fob, like, all that stuff. And, man, like, by the time I was out in the parking lot, I was crying, and I'm, like, not a crier. And I was crying by myself. And I still think back to that because it was, like, the moment that, like, all of it hit, it's like, okay, this is officially real. I can't even go back to that building now. Like, I can't walk in it. It's like, a super, like, secret building. You can't just walk in it. So it was, like, one of those things. It was, like, close. And I realized the long walk to my car felt a little bit longer because I was like, you know what? I'm actually alone. And this is what it's like to be a founder for the next period of time. This is what I signed up for. And again, I think not enough of us think about that. Like, that's terrifying. And I was so nervous. I was so scared, and, like, so I found myself just praying. I'm like, God, like, felt like you put all this in my lap. I felt like you told me to do this. I'm just going to do it. But, like, I am so scared right now. And so driving off that day, going home, knowing that tomorrow I don't have a job, I've got a. I've got a company I'm starting that I hope makes it that I've got a little bit of roadmap for my finances to say, you can try this for this long before you start going hungry. But, man, like, again, it brought me back to, like, what finally centered me once again was courage means being afraid, then doing what you have to do anyway. And so I took all the proper steps. And just December 8, after I picked myself back up, so, 7th, I left the corporate job. The 8th, I picked myself back up. I went at it full force. I was like, I'm gonna give us 110%. Like, I'm gonna go all in on this, because this is it now. Like, I put all my eggs in this basket. It's time to make this happen. Yeah.

[00:22:04 - 00:22:34]And I feel like a lot of that fear also comes down to sort of, like, that identity. Like, you know, who is Alex and Felipe? And for 15 years, you've been this career, you know, in aerospace, et cetera. And now it's like, that's kind of gone. Like, in one day, as you said, almost in one day, it's like, poof, done. Like that. That Alex doesn't exist anymore. So, yeah, I like cheering up as well as you're talking about it. It's like, that is incredibly scary to, like, let that go. Let that part of you go too. So.

[00:22:34 - 00:23:55]But, yeah, it really is. And again, that, quote, courage means being afraid to do what you have to do anyway. Like, I always tell people, even if you're not really the strategic type, like, be strategic about this. Like, I had it all laid out in front of me. And that's what it took for me to say, okay, we can do this. But it also, immediately, December 8, I wasn't, like, running around with my head cut off, like, not knowing what to do. Like, I'm like, oh, man, what? What's next? How do I even start? Like, I knew what had to happen. Those opportunities that were showing up every day that I couldn't tend to because I had a corporate job, I was now tending those every day saying, okay, what's a, what's a real work pace look like? Because the next problem you run into is saying, here's the roadmap. How do we cut that in half? How do we cut that in half again? How do we cut it down to one third? How do we get this there tomorrow? Oh, we stop sleeping. We grind. We go twenty four seven. And it takes a level of self discipline and understanding of, okay, this is what this looks like. And creating that new normal for you that is at a pace where you can live your life and your work to really know that, like, this is how this is going to work and get us there. Maybe we'll get there sooner. Maybe it'll take us a little bit longer. But this is something that's manageable so I don't burn out along the way of trying to, quote, unquote, get back to where I'm wealthy or making it or any of those things. And I think there's a very, very important lesson there. So again, the 8 December, the day after I quit my corporate job, the day that money stopped coming in for me was the day I said, here's the plan. Let's begin executing it at the pace that we know we can do it before we run out completely.

[00:23:56 - 00:24:30]Yes. Okay, now let's talk about then from there, you know, because we spoke about the journey to get to that point, that pivotal point. And then we want to know kind of, I mean the story is still going, but now the story ended as of, you know, today. I kind of know the answer to this, but I want to hear you, you talk about it. But like, did the things that you had thought would happen even given all the uncertainties and unknowns and stuff of entrepreneurship, we know that. But, you know, the things that you thought would happen, did they happen and did they happen in the way that you thought they would?

[00:24:30 - 00:27:18]They happen. Not like I thought they would. Not as quick as I thought they would. So full transparency. The month that Alicia and I started really making income that we could live off of was the last month that we wouldnt be able to pay off our credit card if it went one more month over. So we had exactly like a weeks left of savings before it was like were dipping into the credit card, going into debt. And im very thankful we had that safety net. But it took us basically a little bit longer than we thought. But it was interesting because our income or bank account went literally, if you think of, I dont know, just a line. It was dropping down to zero, down to the bottom. But then it hockey sticked, which I'm super thankful for. So like, it just jumped right back up. And I'm not saying I'd be like, we've got tons of money and stuff, right? Like, I'm just mentioning it to say that the turn when it, once that tide turned, it was a new beginning and it was like, whoa, we're thriving once again. But it didn't look the way I thought it would. And I'm overly ambitious as an entrepreneur. That's why it didn't look the way that I thought it would. Because the reality is I'm over ambitious and I always am like, oh, we can easily cut do this. And then you get into it, you're like, that's impossible. Nobody can do that. But I'm the guy every time, which is probably good for morale and stuff like that. But I've learned and Jesse and Alicia both have helped me a lot to say. All right, Alex, let's bring that down to a normal level. Even though you think you're already being conservative, you're still like in the clouds with this stuff. And I recognize that maybe that's a gift and a curse a little bit, right? And I just have learned, okay, like, we got to bring it down a little bit. But the reason it took as long as it did is because even in my most conservative effort to make a roadmap, it was still overly ambitious in every possible way. And I'm thankful that we did end up making it. But like I said, it got scary. It got down to that last moment where we would have had to make a decision. And maybe for a little bit, because we worked from home, Alicia and I, maybe it was no car for a little bit. So we keep on going. The thing is, at that point, because we committed, knew we could do it long term, we're willing to sacrifice whatever it would have taken at that point to get there, because the writing was on the wall the whole time. And I'm thankful now to be completely on their side of that. And the thing is, your first, people say your first million, but really your. Your first salary of where you want to be, right? Like, each of us are making more money than we ever have in any of our jobs, which I'm so thankful for. But getting to that point is so much harder than doubling, tripling what where we are today. And so, like, the rest of it is stuff that we can just have so much fun now because we're on the other side. And I guess my encouragement to a founder is if you're still kind of in that weed of it, just remember that when you do reach the other side and you have more of that safety net, you can go have a lot of fun. You can use your money that you're making to serve people better, to bring it to where you want to go. And it's just. It's a joy to be there. And I say that as humbly as I can. It's not like I'm out buying ferraris and stuff. We actually like to reinvest it into the platform to serve people better, but we're able to do that now, and we're watching the company grow at really fast paces that maybe mirror Alex's overly ambitious mind a little bit, but it's something that we're just eternally grateful for and so thankful.

[00:27:18 - 00:27:33]That is so awesome. Okay, one. One last question. If you think back to that, that pivotal moment of, like, you making a decision, stepping into your courage of, you know, giving up your job, if you had not done that, where do you think your business, the business would be right now?

[00:27:33 - 00:28:20]It wouldn't be in existence anymore. There's just no way. At some point, maintaining things is usually the start of things dying. Right? There's the old saying that, especially in personal development, if you're not growing, you're dying. And the reality is, it's the same for business. If you're just trying to maintain it and just keep it going, everyone around you is innovating. They're changing things. They're growing, they're leveling up. And if I would have just said, this is all we can do, maybe it would have ridden for a year or two, but at this point, it would be gone because people notice this person isn't in this to really serve. And I find that we're in a world that needs serve first founders. To really be able to thrive and make it long term, we've got to be willing to put more and more into it. And that always looks different. It's not just time. But the reality is, if I didn't make that jump, I would not be having this conversation with you today. Deirdre, there's no chance we'd probably even know each other at this point, which would actually be.

[00:28:20 - 00:28:35]That would cut me deeply. I know you. Okay, so to that point, everyone who is not a pod match user member, I should say, you know, part of the community, part of the platform, where should they go? Check you out?

[00:28:35 - 00:28:56]Yeah. Thank you for that. Podmatch.com free has everything that I do. It'll give you five quick wins you can check out in less than five minutes just to kind of give you introduction to podcasting on either side of the mic or help you take it further. And that's really where I serve. And any way you reach out from there, you're going to get me, because that's where I really spend my time is in the community through podmatch.com free. So, Deirdre, thank you again, though. This was incredible. So fun.

[00:28:56 - 00:29:49]Wow, what an inspiring story Alex shared with us today, and I'd love to hear from you. Has this episode changed how you think about taking your own entrepreneurial leap? Or maybe you've already made the jump and you can relate to Alex's experiences. Let me know by leaving a message through the link in the show notes. I always, always love hearing from from you. And if you're feeling fired up and ready to take your own content to the next level, whether that's finding your ideal guests or maybe being one yourself, then you're definitely gonna want to check out podmatch.com dot. We've left the link to that in the show notes as well. And if you want to get into the nitty gritty of implementing my entire content marketing system, the honey trap method, then have a listen to my limited podcast series content marketing tips, where I break it down for you piece by piece. You can find that in the show notes, too. Thanks so much for tuning in to today's episode. My name is Deirdre Tshien and as always, stay intelligently lazy.