129. Finding Your Flow When Everything Feels Chaotic

[00:00:00 - 00:01:23]Hope you've been enjoying the uprising series so far on this podcast. And thank you. Thank you to those of you who have reached out to me, telling me how these stories have been impacting you in a good way. Of course, it's kind of nice to have that reminder every now and then that we're not alone in this, right? Like that. That this thing that we do, namely entrepreneurship, this thing is not an easy thing. We all face the same or very similar challenges and battles, and it's all always so inspiring to hear how others have challenged it face on and actually won. And so on that note, I wanted to use this episode to give you a bit of an insight into where we are currently here at capture hq and some of the things that we've been battling ourselves and thinking through over the last few months, almost a year. So I hope you find this episode useful and helpful in your own journey. I am privileged, I feel very privileged to be able to share this with you. My name is Deidre Shen. I'm the CEO and co founder of Capsho, the fastest way to create content designed to get you leads. And this is win the content game. Welcome, Bona. Welcome back to win the content game. I feel like you are our most decorated guest of God. This podcast.

[00:01:25 - 00:01:31]I disagree. I would say the most frequent av, but decorated not so much. Not in any sense of the word.

[00:01:31 - 00:01:38]Well, I mean, it's a high bar to get onto this podcast. And the fact that you are the most frequent means that I just crash.

[00:01:38 - 00:01:41]Really? Yeah. And you have no choice.

[00:01:42 - 00:01:44]Pretty much, yeah. I leave you no choice.

[00:01:44 - 00:01:47]Don't do I? This is invite only. Except for me, who are just crashes.

[00:01:47 - 00:01:54]Yeah. Okay. So we are in the last quarter, almost in the last quarter of 2024. How are you feeling about that?

[00:01:54 - 00:02:03]I'm not. I'm in a bit of panic and denial about it. I saw this quote where someone was like, so much panic, not enough disco. That's how it feels like this year has been. I can't believe it.

[00:02:03 - 00:02:13]But I think it's also the shock when, you know, we walked into Costco and it was literally like Christmas just in your face and like, it is surely not that time of the year yet.

[00:02:13 - 00:02:24]It can't be. And you saw my reaction. I was like, no, this is not okay. I had a bit of a meltdown and the guy was like, the Costco guy was like, no, it's not too late. Just accept it, lady. Okay. But yeah, it is. It's very confronting.

[00:02:24 - 00:02:33]It is crazy. Okay, so I wanted to use this episode to kind of talk about almost, like, looking back at the. The year that was given that we are almost in q four.

[00:02:34 - 00:02:34]Yeah.

[00:02:34 - 00:02:41]And so when we started the year, I know that we did an episode on the word of the year, and I was. I mentioned that mine was flow.

[00:02:41 - 00:02:41]Yep.

[00:02:41 - 00:02:42]Did you have that?

[00:02:43 - 00:02:53]I feel really bad that I forgot. Yeah. I mean, you should, because it's so like you to be like, our word is the flow. No, I think it was a good word, though. I think it's a really good word.

[00:02:53 - 00:02:59]Yeah. And so I wanted to kind of almost look back and go, did we.

[00:02:59 - 00:03:05]Achieve this goal, this beautiful word feeling.

[00:03:06 - 00:03:15]We were supposed to feel, but, like, it's sort of. You kind of get palm trees and sand and water in your mind.

[00:03:15 - 00:03:20]Yeah. And just, like, just relaxing. Like, you know, there's no resistance.

[00:03:21 - 00:03:26]So how are you feeling about how 2024 panned out?

[00:03:26 - 00:03:52]Panning out? We still have a few months, most of which is going to be holidays, so it's probably going to zip by really quickly. Look, I do think it's funny. I'm interested in your thoughts about the word flow and the state of flow. For me, personally, it's kind of similar to happiness, where I don't think it's a destination that you reach and you finally unlock and you stay there. I think you get, you know, a lot of it is about working towards that, having that as the goal.

[00:03:52 - 00:03:53]Very true.

[00:03:53 - 00:04:02]And doing very seemingly, at the time, opposite things to it. Like, I was talking about resistance. I think there's a lot of resistance you have to work through to get to a state of flow.

[00:04:03 - 00:04:03]Yes.

[00:04:03 - 00:04:22]Similar with happiness. I think, you know, you can achieve states of happiness during the day, during the year, during the month, but you have to work through a lot of opposite emotions, like sadness, and understand that then that, ironically gets you to a place of happiness. I feel like flow is similar in that sense, at least for me. And I've definitely experienced that this year.

[00:04:22 - 00:04:36]Yeah. And this is really interesting, anyone listening or watching this, because Bono and I have very. You can probably tell that we have quite different approaches, even by way of. Yeah. I remember having this conversation with you about happiness, and I was like, on.

[00:04:36 - 00:04:37]My birthday, I think.

[00:04:37 - 00:04:37]Oh, really?

[00:04:37 - 00:04:38]I was like, aren't you happy?

[00:04:38 - 00:04:41]Cause, you know, for me, I'm like, yeah. You're like, it's a state, right?

[00:04:41 - 00:04:42]It's like, yeah.

[00:04:42 - 00:04:56]Cause I know that I do. I know that I have moments in time when I'm like, oh, my gosh, I just feel really happy now. Yeah, you know, and so, and then we had this whole conversation where Bonna corrected me.

[00:04:59 - 00:05:01]Now I'm like, what part of the conversation was that?

[00:05:01 - 00:05:14]Yes, yes. About how happiness is not. Well, I mean, you weren't this strong about it. You were very much like, for me, as in for you, it is very much that rather than an end state or like a thing that you feel.

[00:05:14 - 00:05:23]And I did struggle answering that question because I was like, it to me, doesn't feel like an on and off thing, which I don't think is where you were coming from, but it just led to your point to discussion.

[00:05:23 - 00:05:43]Yeah. And so even for this, even this comes back to this question of like, do we feel like we're in flow? And, you know, you're very much a process driven. You know, that's kind of what you're saying. Like, are you feeling flow in the process? Like in the, you know, whereas I'm very much a result. No, currently in flow.

[00:05:43 - 00:05:47]Right, next, what level of flow am I at and what next?

[00:05:47 - 00:06:04]What's the next level? Exactly. So that's just how we are, which is great because it kind of also means, like all the things that's good for business and friendships and things like that, which is diversity of thought and, you know, being able to complement each other in certain ways. And so this is just one other way that we do.

[00:06:04 - 00:06:14]And it's helpful, different frames is really helpful of potentially the same thing. So people who, to your point, you know, receive these things differently, hopefully kind of concede in different frames as well.

[00:06:14 - 00:06:18]Yeah, for sure. So that was just a detour that we talk.

[00:06:18 - 00:06:19]It's very unlike us.

[00:06:19 - 00:06:28]Yes. To basically kind of the theme of today's episode, which is, I mean, to answer your question, like, am I feeling in flow? I actually am.

[00:06:28 - 00:06:29]That's great.

[00:06:30 - 00:06:54]It has been a battle, by the way, to get to this point, like years, I would say, of battle, and it's nowhere near done. And, you know, we can always improve. And now it's almost like, how do we maintain this, you know, a level where we can, you know, succeed but not feel like we're having to hustle and grind in order to, you know, we can continue feeling. Well, for me, feeling in flow.

[00:06:54 - 00:06:55]Yes.

[00:06:55 - 00:07:16]And I think a lot of that is really down to this concept that I feel like we've spoken about a lot throughout this year of focus. I know, I've definitely, we've posted about it. We've, you know, in anyone who came to Captcha Vince live, you know, that a big part of what I was talking about was like, was focused. Need to focus. Focus to grow. Focus.

[00:07:17 - 00:07:22]Yes. The whole chant going, we need. Still need the merch for that.

[00:07:22 - 00:07:52]I know. So anyway, so that was kind of like the one big thing. And I knew that this year, that focus piece was what we needed to crack in order to find that flow and importantly, to succeed. That was the main thing. So I kind of want to talk about that. And I also wanted to get your thoughts, Bona, because I know that your role inside capture is, you know, you are co. Which means that it's really just another. It's a fancy title of saying everything is on your plate.

[00:07:54 - 00:07:55]That's very empowering.

[00:07:55 - 00:08:01]Yes. I am nothing if not empowering. Yes.

[00:08:01 - 00:08:11]That's what you. Can you see me behind my news plate of things to do. Yes. There is a lot. There is a lot to think about, for sure.

[00:08:11 - 00:08:16]So I just. I almost wanted to, you know, I can definitely talk about focus from my perspective as kind of, like, CEO.

[00:08:16 - 00:08:17]And then.

[00:08:17 - 00:08:52]But I really wanted to. And this is important for everyone to hear this because, like, you know, for me, it's like I have a. And for everyone who's most likely listening to this, you're. You're probably yourself a CEO, whether that's. You've got a team of Vas or whether you do have a team of, you know, other people, or whether it's just yourself. But ultimately, it's like, you know, I look at it from one perspective and then, you know, Bonnie, you definitely bring the other perspective of, like, is actually trickling down. Is that actually flowing down? Yes, because it's great if you feel good, but if your team for sure aren't, then, well, you know, we're still in a bit of a bind, aren't we? So.

[00:08:52 - 00:08:52]Yeah.

[00:08:53 - 00:09:07]So why don't we start with, yeah, what we've kind of, like, come through in order to even get to this point. And so. Yeah, where do we even start? Oh, my gosh. I feel like.

[00:09:08 - 00:09:13]January this year feels like five years ago, so that's what makes this process a little difficult.

[00:09:13 - 00:09:37]Yeah. So even if we talk about that. Okay, so basically, January of this year was Captchovian's life. Right? And it was incredible. Such an incredible experience. And seriously, the feedback from that. I know we keep saying this, but it was just. I still, like, light up and I think about, you know, the smiles in the room, the tears in the room.

[00:09:38 - 00:09:40]We don't need to talk about that.

[00:09:41 - 00:09:46]But, like, genuinely. It genuinely felt like we impacted lives.

[00:09:46 - 00:09:47]Yes. Right.

[00:09:47 - 00:09:48]And even our own lives.

[00:09:48 - 00:09:51]I was gonna say, I think we were very. Also changed by the experience.

[00:09:51 - 00:10:24]Right? Yeah. And then, so we came back from there and we're like, yes, we're gonna do another Captchovians live. So we're on that, on that train. And then in the meantime, as you probably know, our journey. So we had capture 2.0, and we were in the middle of rebuilding capture next gen. So in the meantime, we had launched capture next gen, which is an amazing software product, which, by the way, if you have not tried it, like, seriously, what are you doing? You got to get on it. You got to try it because it's. And if nothing else, than to just like, please give us feedback. Even if nothing else, even if you.

[00:10:24 - 00:10:25]Don'T like it, tell us.

[00:10:25 - 00:10:30]Yeah, because we are constantly improving and the rate at which things are dropping now is pretty.

[00:10:30 - 00:10:33]I was gonna say it keeps getting better. It keeps getting better.

[00:10:34 - 00:10:57]So that happened in the meantime, and we were kind of, I feel like we were caught in this bind of not focusing because, you know, very much our past and, you know, having come from coaching space and the way that we've grown, businesses in the past have very much been event driven. Whether that was a challenge that we did, we, you know, that was how we grew. Our first coaching business was we did a monthly challenge.

[00:10:57 - 00:10:58]Yep.

[00:10:58 - 00:11:10]You know, whether that's doing masterclasses, workshops, trainings like you, I think everyone here knows that last year was pretty much what it was. Every week I had a guest expert on to do a masterclass to the community.

[00:11:10 - 00:11:13]Yeah. Along with monthly challenges, multi day challenges.

[00:11:13 - 00:11:14]Oh, my gosh. It was crazy.

[00:11:14 - 00:11:15]Right?

[00:11:16 - 00:11:59]And then, so that was kind of like a bit of our bread and butter. Like, that's what we know. And then, in a way, I think we struggled to let that go because I think deep down, we knew that we had to supplement CaptCHA 2.0 or like, whatever the software was at the time, with continuing to add value in this other way, at least in our minds, that was kind of what we thought, what we felt. And then when capture next gen launched and we see immediately how amazing it is, because it's one thing, by the way, you guys, if you're listening to this, to design and conceptually think that something's going to be amazing and actually, like, have it be brought to life and be amazing, put it in front.

[00:11:59 - 00:12:02]Of strangers, and then they actually say it's amazing.

[00:12:02 - 00:12:10]Yeah. So, you know, and then we. I think we got to this crossroads where we had to make a decision as to what type of business are we in.

[00:12:10 - 00:12:10]Yep.

[00:12:10 - 00:12:42]You know, are we in a product software led business or are we in an events training education style business? And that's not to say that, you know, businesses can't be both, but when we talk about focus, it's the primary and second thing you kind of have to decide you do. Right. Because otherwise your split, your team split. Like, I want you to talk a little bit about your experience even going through that time, that journey of like we were kind of trying to be both and what that kind of meant for you in terms of what you were doing.

[00:12:42 - 00:13:47]Yeah, absolutely. I think that's right. What you're saying about and if some people might be in the same boat as well, you know, for us it felt like we were trying to be both and we're trying to be both at a really high level. That's the other thing too. And that's not to say that, you know, be both in a mediocre level. That's not what I'm saying. Yes, definitely don't do that. But it's very likely that once you are put your mind to something, you want it to be the best. And I think that's what was creating a lot of that tension. And to that point, you know, we know software requires furnishing. You can't just have a product out there, especially now because software is so easy to build. There's a lot of smart people out there building a tools kind of like a ticket to the game. So these other things are required, but thinking about, you know, which is the primary and which is the secondary and supporting. So for me, the experience has been, I think when we've gone from both have to be done at a really high level. And sometimes there isn't even an adjacency there because we might get someone really amazing to run a masterclass, but it's kind of really hard to link that to capture other than the fact that captured doing both of these things, like, you're the linkage.

[00:13:47 - 00:13:48]Yeah.

[00:13:48 - 00:14:56]And I think that was really challenging for us from a communications perspective, people not really knowing what it is that we actually do, which is we have a product like. And just some people just completely missing that. So I think for me personally and then obviously the impact on our team, who I have to make sure deployed onto the right things, it felt like day in and day out, a lot of context switching very much. Um, and the other thing about events and campaigns is that they're date driven. So every week's prioritization would be, it felt like more of an urge like, are we working on urgent things or important things? And definitely I felt like we shelved some important things at the cost of urgent things because we've kind of promised this thing's going to happen, not even from a product perspective. So let's just run this and, you know, get back on track. And then before you know it, another thing comes and we're also doing trade shows. Like we're actually going to external events as well. Not just our own with captchovians live, but. And all of these things have a date in the calendar and you just, you know, you end up just becoming, catering to that and then the product kind of falls by the wayside, not just in terms of your investment, like how you're thinking about it, but also like, you telling your audience about it.

[00:14:56 - 00:14:57]Yes.

[00:14:57 - 00:15:08]And, you know, it was really funny because recently we did a reintroduction campaign to capture because a lot of people on our list had no idea what we did. They will just. Or they'd say, I enjoy you guys.

[00:15:08 - 00:15:10]You do a lot of stuff.

[00:15:10 - 00:15:19]I like reading what you're doing. And it's like, gosh, we can't build a sustainable business on that. We're just entertaining people at this point.

[00:15:19 - 00:15:21]We're not even great entertainers.

[00:15:21 - 00:16:05]No, definitely not. I would not put ourselves out there as if that's what we're basing this on. We're all in trouble. But we were like, wow, again. And the other big learning is like, you can set an intention around focus and flow. Yeah, but now really, only really, I think a lot of people forget about the time and work it takes to get there. Sometimes it feels like I'll say my word of the year and from tomorrow I'm going to be on flow or start focusing. She would have set the intention last year if you wanted it this year. But that's where the process comes in, which is what we were talking about. And the process is so horrible. Like, no one tells you that either. No, it sounds so nice until you.

[00:16:05 - 00:16:10]Actually have to do it and commit to it. I think that's the other thing. Like the reason why I think so weak.

[00:16:10 - 00:16:12]But gosh, yeah, right.

[00:16:12 - 00:16:23]Like, or you have the best intentions at like all New New Year's resolutions and stuff. Like, you have the best intentions, but it is just so hard to stay true to it, which it was for us as well.

[00:16:23 - 00:16:24]It was, yeah.

[00:16:24 - 00:16:56]So, you know, like, even to your point of, like, when we're in that mode, definitely last year was like such a very much the example of not focusing and being really splitting ourselves like this. But you know what that led to was we. Because my answer to everything, especially in our conversations when you were like, oh, my God, this is really overwhelming. I don't know. And I was like, okay, we'll just throw more bodies at it. Like, who do we need to hire? What do we need? Because again, that's what we get told, right. That we need to grow a team and we need to learn how to delegate. Exactly.

[00:16:56 - 00:16:57]Yep.

[00:16:57 - 00:17:04]And so we did. We tried that and then that just almost, I feel like that led to a bit of a mental breakdown, I'm not gonna lie.

[00:17:05 - 00:17:09]But you bit off mental and emotional breakdown.

[00:17:09 - 00:17:14]But that was kind of what led to, gosh, like October 31 of pretty.

[00:17:14 - 00:17:17]Much like this time last year, we.

[00:17:17 - 00:17:34]Decided to cut our entire team. And I feel like that was the beginning really of the journey for us, of focus, because that meant that we had to. We had to, like, we. Because I was like, we are not giving ourselves any other options. It's just gonna be us for now.

[00:17:34 - 00:17:35]Yep.

[00:17:35 - 00:17:45]And so we're gonna be really, really hyper focused and we're gonna nail down the right things to work on and what to focus on given the resources that we have right now. Because this other way is not the solution.

[00:17:45 - 00:17:46]Yep.

[00:17:47 - 00:18:21]And it's funny because I think I mentioned to you even last week, I was reading an article and it was about the founder of, and CEO of Airbnb. And there seems to be this trend in, even in Silicon Valley about how, you know, they're looking at managed, like founder slash management styles and it's, everyone is coming, going back to this model of, even as CEO, even if they have a big. Obviously, you know, Airbnb, you can imagine the number of people they have in their business, but the CEO themselves is like, I am not having anyone in the business focus on anything that I myself cannot get across.

[00:18:21 - 00:18:21]Yes.

[00:18:21 - 00:18:27]As in, if I don't have the bandwidth and time to be across all of the moving parts of the business, then it's not gonna happen.

[00:18:27 - 00:18:28]Yeah. We're doing too much.

[00:18:28 - 00:18:44]Yeah. Which is like a lot of pressure when you think about it to put on one person. But I mean, I guess with that role come like it makes sense, then the pressure goes two ways. Right. Either, like, you have the role and you have to take on, you take on responsibility anyway.

[00:18:44 - 00:18:44]Yes.

[00:18:45 - 00:18:49]Which means that you're gonna have to be accountable to all the things that happen in the business. So.

[00:18:49 - 00:20:05]And I think it's also, like, it. I think it also helps you ask different questions though, because if I reflect on our journey together and you were talking about how, you know, it is a lot of pressure being the CEO. Like, regardless, even if you don't care about titles, which I know you don't, you know, there's still a psychological pressure you take on anyway. And I think what's really difficult when you're trying to grow in the way that we were trying to do everything is that there's absolutely no way anyone can be across it. And you try to put the people and systems in place, but you're not really, because we just keep adding more to the list. But now it's kind of like, okay, I was always accountable. Like, ultimately, because something goes wrong, like, I'm the person, but we're going to do it in a much more humane way now where we're going to remove the things that were never working and we're going to be really humane to each other and say, okay, well, as the integrator, which is me or the Coo, whatever you want to call it, this is what's going to be on your plate. Like, what does that actually look like? And taking those 1015 minutes to say, literally, this is how much time or bandwidth I have because those two don't always correlate directly. And similarly, for you to be like, okay, this is kind of what I need to be across, and this is just going to happen. Right. So I just think it's a much more. It is a lot of pressure. But the pressure was there anyway, right?

[00:20:05 - 00:20:07]Well, that should be. I know it's crazy when you don't.

[00:20:07 - 00:20:40]Care about your company. Yeah, it's just before, I think it was even higher pressure because you're like, well, all of these things should just be happening because I'm putting the things in place versus now. It's like, okay, not as much as I would like, but okay, I'm giving myself a reality check. The things that are getting done are the right things. I have more confidence and my team are happier. You're always going to be in a state of overwhelm, but it doesn't feel, like, unachievable, and we all just feel better, but the pressure is always there because that's just business, 100%.

[00:20:40 - 00:20:52]So if I go back to then. So then, you know, we kind of reflected on this time last year and the state that we were in and cutting our team, and it was just a. Not that we were hellhole at the.

[00:20:52 - 00:20:54]Time, the worst time.

[00:20:54 - 00:20:58]And then, you know, even come, you know, we launched next gen. Gosh, when.

[00:20:58 - 00:21:01]Did that happen, like, the soft launch or the full launch?

[00:21:01 - 00:21:02]Oh, soft launch.

[00:21:02 - 00:21:03]Soft launch was April.

[00:21:03 - 00:21:10]April. Okay, so, yeah, yeah. So let's say, you know, q two of this year, it's only been that long. It really has.

[00:21:10 - 00:21:12]Because end of April was soft launch.

[00:21:12 - 00:21:26]And then, like, July was hard launch time. Just. Anyway, okay, so. And then at that point, we did have to have another hard conversation. Not because it was, like, hard between us, but it was just, like, a hard thing to wrestle with.

[00:21:26 - 00:21:27]Right.

[00:21:27 - 00:21:55]Myself, you and Ash, the three co founders, going, okay, well, now that we have this, like, let's make a decision. We just need to focus. And the decision that we came to was, well, the thing at the core of what it is that we do is we have a product, we have software. That is what we need to focus on. That is what we need to be talking about all the time. That is what we need to be really, like, all of us making sure succeeds.

[00:21:55 - 00:21:56]Yes.

[00:21:56 - 00:21:56]Right.

[00:21:56 - 00:21:57]Yeah.

[00:21:57 - 00:23:20]And so when we made that decision, it meant a few things, which was also, this was kind of what made this conversation hard, was we had to look at our calendar and go, okay, well, then, you know, what we had booked in for capture bin save 2025 doesn't make sense anymore, at least not now. And so we had to, again, make the decision to cancel that and all of these, you know, even though last year we had monthly challenges, and we're like, hey, this year, let's see if we can do quarterly. Even that at that cadence was like, no, we're going to have to shelve that, too, because, again, we cannot be talking and trying to stretch ourselves too thin on too many things. And even if that doesn't sound like too many, it usually is. Yeah. Right. Because there's so much more that goes into it. And so we did make a decision to go, all right, we're going to really streamline this and have our one virtual summit for the year, which is happening. Gosh, November 18. So one virtual summit, which is basically going to become Cap show's marquee annual event. Yeah, it kind of already was. But then I think with the in person event, that was, you know, it was going to be that. But I. We're like, no, it makes more sense for the summit to be the marquee event that we pour a lot more of our time and effort into, and we can give ourselves more time to actually make it the most amazing experience.

[00:23:20 - 00:23:21]Yes.

[00:23:21 - 00:23:21]Ever.

[00:23:21 - 00:23:22]For everyone.

[00:23:22 - 00:23:22]For everyone.

[00:23:22 - 00:23:23]Speakers and audience.

[00:23:24 - 00:23:32]Exactly. And so. Yeah. And were there. Are there any other implications that came to mind, even for you when we made this decision?

[00:23:32 - 00:23:50]Well, no, to that point, those decisions, I think were the implications around then. It just has to flow on impact for, you know, our mind share and then ultimately the team working on these things. And it meant then our product team who actually building the product for us probably got a better version of us just versus, at least for me anyway. The Gremlin is just like, where is.

[00:23:50 - 00:23:52]It that at the end of the.

[00:23:52 - 00:23:56]Day, you know, because we're so stressed about everything else, it's like we need the product to work.

[00:23:56 - 00:23:56]Yes.

[00:23:56 - 00:24:08]And it's like, no, well, we need to give it time. So I think that was the other big shift as well, to say, well, literally, I can see blocks in my calendar open up now that can be dedicated to product development outside of technical development. And that's amazing.

[00:24:08 - 00:24:37]Yeah. So, okay, so I feel like so coming back to the word flow and, you know, we've kind of taken you all on a journey of, you know what, it's taken a little bit for us to create this focus. And it always starts with the decision, right. Like, for us, that's what happened, right. We had to actually talk it out loud. And even if it's just you on your own right now, if you're a solopreneur, like, find a friend, find a mastermind, someone that you can just like verbal diarrhea, your thoughts too, around, like.

[00:24:37 - 00:24:39]Hey, you know you're about to do that.

[00:24:39 - 00:25:08]Yeah. Like, these are all the things that we have on. But, like, what is the one main thing that you need to focus on? And everything else has to go really like that's at the end of it. And once you make that decision, I think the second hardest thing, that's the first hard thing, and the second hard thing is to actually commit to it. It's not even the implementing of it. It's like actually committing to, okay, I made this decision, I'm going to make it happen because if you kind of are wishy washy on that or you flip flop, then implementation's never going to happen.

[00:25:08 - 00:26:09]And I wonder if in that, I think what worked well for us, because we've tried this multiple times, you know, like, this is difficult human behavior to change. But I think what worked really well this time was when we made that first decision to say, okay, it's not just because you've said that that's what you're going to do. With Captcha Avian's live, we're like, there's human implications to this. I think there's business implications to this, but I think identifying why you were doing that in the first place, why were we not focusing? I know you mentioned that as well, to say. And a lot of the time it comes from. Okay, well, because I feel like the product's not good enough. Okay, let's actually talk about that. And how do we. So, ironically, the thing that the fear that you have, which is your products aren't good enough, you're kind of taking time away from the thing you want to make good enough by doing these other things that you're scared you're doing from fear. Right. So as soon as you identify that, then that step two becomes a little bit easier. Still hard. When you find yourself about to do it, you kind of go, okay, I'm doing this again, a out of habit, but probably out of fear. I need to redirect this to address the fear or decide I'm not a product business at all.

[00:26:09 - 00:26:28]I worked out. Okay, so I want to delve into this thought that you brought up, because I think I have a feeling that everyone feels this. So let's delve into this right after this quick ad break. Okay, so you mentioned before we broke around this whole, like, the fear, like.

[00:26:29 - 00:26:30]Your voice has changed.

[00:26:30 - 00:26:34]I know. I'm like, we're gonna make this real.

[00:26:34 - 00:26:36]Let's wrap this episode up now.

[00:26:37 - 00:27:18]I have spoken to so many other entrepreneurs who are super excited about their, like, and I'm doing this, I'm gonna do that, and I'm gonna do this. And, you know, I always come back to, oh, no. Like, but they're so excited about it. And I think the thing is, what I've realized and pretty much is what you articulated is at the root of, and I used to call it, I used to be proud of it. Right? Like, I used to be like, oh, yeah. It's like entrepreneurship ADHD, and we can't help it. We're entrepreneurs. And, you know, and sometimes it depends on maybe the level of success. Like, if you're super successful already in your business, then, yeah, that might make sense because it's kind of like, oh, well, you know, and that thing that I've been, that made me successful, I'm tired of it.

[00:27:18 - 00:27:21]Or it's, you know, it is genuinely time for growth.

[00:27:21 - 00:27:38]Right. Then totally. That makes sense to then think about the next thing. But if you're still in this building phase, and a lot of the entrepreneurs I speak to are still in this phase where they haven't actually been able to, in their minds, like, truly succeed, you know, whether that's from a financial perspective. Mainly from a financial perspective. Right.

[00:27:38 - 00:27:38]Yeah.

[00:27:38 - 00:28:10]And so then they just feel like they need to, like, work on all these other things. And. And I actually do truly think that it comes down to what you just raised, which is that you actually. We do that because we actually fear the root cause, which is that, you know, everything that all of the insecurities, all of the fears that we feel comes down to, I hypothesize, comes down to one thing, which is that as a person, we never feel like we're good enough.

[00:28:10 - 00:28:11]Yeah.

[00:28:11 - 00:28:11]Right.

[00:28:11 - 00:28:12]Yep.

[00:28:12 - 00:28:33]And so if you extrapolate that to then your business, you know, when we have this, you know, whether we call it entrepreneurship, ADHD, or all of these other projects and all these other things that we want to work on, like, now, having come through this, going through. Going. Having gone through this journey and coming out, still going through it, I'm never going to say I'm at the other end, because it's a constant thing.

[00:28:33 - 00:28:33]Oh, yeah.

[00:28:33 - 00:28:43]I I can see that. It really was. That it was just that I was trying to hide the fact that I didn't feel like I. And therefore, the product as an extension of you.

[00:28:43 - 00:28:44]As an extension of you. Yeah.

[00:28:44 - 00:28:45]Was good enough.

[00:28:45 - 00:28:45]Yeah.

[00:28:46 - 00:28:58]Which is actually really. So if anyone's listening to this and maybe you might have some resistance, I would hazard, guess you'll listen to us say these words, and you're like, no, that doesn't apply. That's not me.

[00:28:58 - 00:28:59]Yes.

[00:28:59 - 00:29:09]I just. I have really, really great multitasking skills, and I project management skills. I'm really great in my calendar and my time management, and I just get all the things done right.

[00:29:09 - 00:29:14]Who's this amazing person? Or you accept it only intellectually, not emotionally. That's the other thing, too. Yeah.

[00:29:15 - 00:29:39]I would challenge everyone or invite everyone to really think about the why, like, the root cause to why you might be distracted with these other things. What is it that you actually want to be working on, and what do you actually want us to truly see succeed? Right. Like that. That's like, the call that your main business or your core business.

[00:29:39 - 00:29:40]Yeah.

[00:29:40 - 00:29:57]And think about, are you trying to run away from a fear, maybe? Are you trying to hide from something? Like, what is it that you're. I would hazard a guess that it will come down to that being the main reason why you're nothing. Focusing.

[00:29:57 - 00:31:00]Yes. And that. That is hard work. And I know that you've put a lot of, like, effort into that, which is why I could probably. I'm like, oh, like that's what's different. Yeah, because, and that's what makes you serious about it this time. Because in a way, you're, like, even though it's, it sounds very, like, self indulgent, you're going into all of these depths with yourself, but in doing that, you're actually removing yourself. And all of us have to do this work as the blocker for your business. Like, that's how I think about it. And you went even further to say, okay, it's because I have this. I'm doing all of these things because the product in my mind isn't good enough. And that's an irrational thought because with everything, you know, you have to build something to be better. But also, I think another breakthrough that you had with all of Akina, you talked about bringing a lot of expert guests on and doing all of this stuff and adding value to our community. But also there was this, you know, like, you're trying to compensate for something by, like, giving. And these very deservedly so. Everyone you brought in was amazing, these platforms. And maybe not necessarily taking the same for yourself.

[00:31:00 - 00:31:01]Yes.

[00:31:01 - 00:32:06]And, like, you know, obviously, we have a very, like, serve first culture. So I don't, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but I mean, I know even, you know, like, Jenna, you know, Larson. Hi, Jenna, if you're watching, mentioned this, to say, hey, like, this is great, but, like, it needs to be two ways. So I think there's just a lot there where you're like, oh, like, I'm doing these things again from that feeling of, like, not enoughness and it doesn't have to do with confidence. I think, you know, like, you're a very confident person. Like, we're all confident people. So leading a business requires confidence. But this is the deeper work that's, like, really hard to do. But I do want to talk about specifics because sometimes it can feel very, like, what's this? Very, you know, it feels very, like, conceptual, but it's like, these are, like, the practical sort of decisions that, you know, you need to make. In my case, it had to be, okay. What's my role in keeping this hamster wheel going has been I say yes to a lot of things as well, that a lot of my role is to say no. And I haven't always historically been good at that until I realized that all of my yeses were nos to other things that were growing our business.

[00:32:06 - 00:32:07]Yes.

[00:32:07 - 00:32:32]So then I have to be, like, saying yes is actually no to the right things, you know? So saying no to the wrong things. It's just each of us have that personal challenge. It's going to be like we said, we started the episode saying we're very different people by how we view things. So very different people by the. I guess the weaknesses we have and recognizing them is what this game is about. And it's tough. It's so tough, but it's really fulfilling.

[00:32:33 - 00:32:33]Why are we doing this?

[00:32:34 - 00:33:06]It's like you question it to say, is it all worth it? Why can't I just have a simple life? But I think that's actually really important around making these changes for yourself because it has such a flow on impact to your team as well. Because we still do have team members. Even though we got rid of a lot of our team and downsized a lot, we still have some critical team members and their pathway and their fears and strengths and all of that is dependent on this. So I do also feel that responsibility and we all should as we're going through this journey.

[00:33:07 - 00:33:24]Yeah. So I guess, like, yeah, so, you know, hopefully you've got something out of this episode so far. You know, we talked a lot about focus and kind of almost what it takes to. To truly focus and what it takes is just for you to, I don't know, break down. Like, have a mental breakdown. Right? Is that the shortcut?

[00:33:24 - 00:33:32]Yeah, it's definitely part of the checklist, let's say. And you're like, I haven't had one yet. Does that mean I have it?

[00:33:32 - 00:34:38]No, but genuinely, through that process, it was, you know, as we. It's a messy, messy process. But now let's talk about flow and, you know, are we feeling it? Are we. Are we not? Like, where are we in that journey? And. And for me, I. There's still some things that I don't love doing, but that's always gonna happen. Right. But by and large, it's like, when I think about the life that we're building now, what we're able to do, spending time with my puppy and with my husband ash, and doing things and having this life where we're not bound by a traditional working time, time constraint. So, you know, we get to do something that really fulfills us. We get to serve people in a way that is awesome and, you know, is making impact for them and their business, like, and the days just seem easier is that. I don't know if it's easier as such, but it's just I. But I think that's because I'm struggling with the word, but I feel like it is the flow.

[00:34:38 - 00:34:45]Yeah, it's more in flow, which definitely. Which already has a level of ease even though you're not doing easy things all the time.

[00:34:45 - 00:35:09]Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of how I'm feeling right now because of the fact that it's like, okay, I have, you know, going back to only really get your team, or, like, whatever's being worked on the business, it should only, like, you need to have the capacity to stay on top of it. I fully feel like I have the capacity to stay on top of what's happening, even though there are multiple people working on the things. But I'm like, oh, okay. I know that this is. These are the important big rocks.

[00:35:09 - 00:35:10]Yes.

[00:35:10 - 00:35:18]And I know where they're at, and I have the time to actually go, oh, okay. And help guide or help shape those things in a warmingful way.

[00:35:18 - 00:35:22]You have the bandwidth to hopefully bring a fresh perspective to the person who's doing it as well.

[00:35:22 - 00:35:41]Yes, exactly. So I feel like that. Like, so I'm feeling way better than that. Whereas before. I mean, I don't know. You can probably tell. Say, tell me better than I probably know. But I kind of felt like it was just, like, constant, like, okay, well, this next thing. Next thing. And we were just, like, trying to pump things out and nothing. It was just. We were just in a hamster wheel. Right?

[00:35:41 - 00:35:43]Yeah, for sure.

[00:35:43 - 00:35:51]So that's how I kind of am feeling. If I were to describe my state of flow right now. What about for you?

[00:35:51 - 00:36:13]Yeah, I mean, I think for me, a big part of it has also been like you were just talking about. I think it's important to think about, because our businesses obviously are integrated into our lives. Yes. And for me, I think it's been a really big chapter of acceptance, and I know sometimes acceptance can have a level of, like, resignation to it, so that's not kind of what I mean.

[00:36:14 - 00:36:14]Yeah.

[00:36:14 - 00:38:05]I think for me, obviously, we have. You know, we're at different stages in life. For me, I think has. It has been what has helped in kind of focusing on what we're like, what work is about, and what are the things, what success looks like, I should probably say. Yeah, I think has given me a level of freedom around. Okay, well, I'm. Well, I'm no longer on this hamster wheel, but for me, personally in my life, I don't have many other priorities right now, and I think I. And I think it's important for me to offer this because I'm not very comfortable. I feel like I don't really know if this is valuable to people, but I've been hearing it more from others. So I think it's actually important to normalize this because we have such different journeys. I think there's a big narrative out there about you should have work life balance, and a lot of people have kids as well. And I don't know how you do it. Like, my hat's off to you. And, you know, you were talking about making time for your partner and your, you know, your. Your animals and, you know, your home and building this life. And I think that's really wonderful. For me personally, I'm at a stage where it's like, those are not things that I necessarily have capacity for. And that's okay as well because there's just different narratives. You know, I think a big part of it has just been, like, being accepting of that, but because we now have a greater focus as it relates to capture the level of resentment that maybe was there before is not there. And resentment is probably a strong word because I don't remember actually feeling it, but I think it could have become resentment later. So I think the game that we. I would say I'm not a spiritual person, but entrepreneurship is a spiritual game because it actually gets you to. Yes, it's about doing the things in front of you and, you know, building the business that you want, but it actually gets to tackle all of these things. So I find myself at a level of peace now a little bit more because I think I've really simplified things down.

[00:38:05 - 00:38:05]Yes.

[00:38:06 - 00:38:30]And I'm not thinking about this as like, okay, well, once I get this done with capture, then I can go and do these other things. It's just. It is what it is right now and what will be. What will be. But I feel really good about the present and working on the things that are in front of me and cultivating joy, happiness, all of those and a spectrum of emotions. And not being so obsessed about what this means for what it's going to do for the future.

[00:38:30 - 00:38:31]Yes.

[00:38:31 - 00:38:58]So that's. I mean, that could change, but that's the shift I've noticed in myself, which makes for, hopefully, a calmer and more present person. Definitely for you guys as my co founders, but also for the team that we have to lead, because then that's actually going to help make the changes that we ultimately want. Yes, but it's this. It's the desire to, like, oh, like, get the stuff done so that we can do this is not as strong.

[00:38:58 - 00:38:58]Yeah.

[00:38:59 - 00:39:01]Which ironically means that those things will happen quicker.

[00:39:01 - 00:39:02]Yeah.

[00:39:02 - 00:39:03]Which is great.

[00:39:03 - 00:39:05]Yes, let's. Yep.

[00:39:05 - 00:39:06]Cool.

[00:39:06 - 00:39:34]Okay. I'm not gonna. Anyway, so you can see it's a constant battle, is what was is what we're saying. But I think that's right, like, what you're saying around. We just. We all make choices, and I think we just have to acknowledge that sometimes the choices that we make aren't gonna be the traditional, like. Yeah, because if, you know, I don't. If I'm gonna be honest, like, I don't quite understand because I'm not in your situation or, like, you know, so I'm not gonna make the same choices as you because I just. I can't. Like, that's not.

[00:39:34 - 00:39:35]And you're a different person, right?

[00:39:35 - 00:39:47]Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So. But it's beautiful to hear like, that, even, like, almost hearing the different state, like, stages, types of people that we are. Like, how.

[00:39:47 - 00:39:47]Ways of thinking.

[00:39:47 - 00:40:00]Ways of thinking, yeah. That you can still find that similar. We'll call it flow state. Yes. Regardless. And they just look different and they probably do feel different as well.

[00:40:00 - 00:40:02]Exactly. Yeah.

[00:40:02 - 00:40:25]So, yeah. So, anyway, something more for us to chew on. Okay, so we're about to wrap up, but I just want to then go. Okay, so what, like, now we've kind of gone through this period of really, you know, messy things. Not say it's overdevelop, but we are finding ourselves in a much more, much more flow. State of flow. That doesn't make sense.

[00:40:26 - 00:40:29]In a state of flow. More or much more flowy.

[00:40:29 - 00:40:31]Yeah, we're flowier right now.

[00:40:33 - 00:40:33]More in flow.

[00:40:33 - 00:40:53]More in flow. Okay. So what that kind of means as well is that even for this, for the podcast, like, I really wanted to make this meaningful and I. And meaningful valuable, but also, you know, keep ourselves in a state of flow, because that's important, too.

[00:40:53 - 00:40:53]Yes.

[00:40:54 - 00:41:39]And I'm really, really excited about what's coming because as you, as I mentioned before, we are like the virtual summit that we're having, that we're holding. Get more clients from your content. Summit, which is happening in November, is our marquee event. So this is going to be our annual marquee event. And I have some amazing, amazing speakers. Like, I literally cannot even believe that some of these people agreed to be on the summit. That's how amazing it is. And so we're actually going to dedicate a lot of this podcast to actually each of those sessions. So from next week onwards, you're going to start to hear a guest speaker each week. And I'm sure that Bono and I will be back every now and then to keep you up to date on the capture.

[00:41:39 - 00:41:41]I'd be more of a surprise guest.

[00:41:41 - 00:42:46]Now, but yeah, you will hear from now on an expert guest speaking about one of three main things. So either it's going to be around how to create content that is designed to sell, that is convert, or it's going to be about how to grow your audience, or it's going to be about how to get that audience that you're growing to actually become a lead and client. And so because that is just the theme of like, what it is that we do here at capture, we are so, so committed to helping you create those content marketing assets, which is when you think about top of funnel. Right. So we all have to start with top of funnel. Create that in such a way that it's really simple and strategic to get people through to the bottom of your funnel. That is what we're here to do and committed to helping you succeed in. So that's why we have these expert guests on, because they each bring an element of that to life and they can teach you about something. Now, I do not want this to be, you got to do all the things each week.

[00:42:46 - 00:42:47]Disclaimer yeah.

[00:42:47 - 00:43:37]Okay. Because we're talking about flow in this episode, a lot of these things. It's good just to hear what's happening, how people are thinking about things. But again, it comes to decisions and the choices that we make. Right? Like what is the thing that, you know, fits in really well with? It might just be even a level, like a slight tweak here and just, it'll just level up what it is that you're doing already in your business or maybe you have nothing. And then it's like, okay, well, we have to start from the basics and we have to build to being able to implement, you know, all of the things. But I do not want you to hear, you know, or listen to all of these guess experts and start to get overwhelmed by all the things that you have. You have, you feel like you should implement because we're not shooting on ourselves anymore. Yep, we've decided we did an episode on that. We're not doing that anymore. But it's literally like right now, what is the one or two things that.

[00:43:37 - 00:43:46]You need to implement and a decision that you make when you listen to an episode may well be. That's really awesome. I'm not going to do it right now. And that's really powerful, too.

[00:43:46 - 00:44:02]100%. Okay, so just what practice about bon appreaches, which is if you say yes, to one thing, it means that you're saying no to something else, which is probably the right thing. So don't do that, but also implement some stuff so you succeed.

[00:44:02 - 00:44:04]Always say yes to capture.

[00:44:04 - 00:44:23]Yes. All right. Okay, cool. So as of this episode going live, we are probably going to open a waitlist for the summit so that you can register and you can keep up to date for when we actually open registrations. So get in on that because you do not want to miss all the amazingness that we have coming for the get more clients from your content summit.

[00:44:23 - 00:44:23]It's exciting.

[00:44:24 - 00:44:27]So all that. I think that's it from us. My name is fun.

[00:44:27 - 00:44:28]Yeah.

[00:44:28 - 00:44:38]Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I feel like I was like. My name's, like, this is fun. My name is fun. My name is. This is fun.

[00:44:39 - 00:44:44]And then I looked at you because you're gonna continue, and then you're like, I mean, yeah, all right.

[00:44:45 - 00:44:47]Okay, cool. Well, my name is Deirdre.

[00:44:47 - 00:44:47]I'm Bona.

[00:44:48 - 00:44:50]And as always, stay intelligently lazy.

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