131. Why Podcast Guesting is Your Secret Weapon for Business Growth

[00:00:00 - 00:01:45]Welcome to the get more clients from your content summit series. Today we have a very special guest, someone you have heard on this podcast before. Very recently, in fact, Alex Sanfilippo from Podmatch. And it's for very good reasons that you keep hearing from him pretty frequently, frequently on this podcast. One is because, well, he's a really good friend of mine, and but two, and one more importantly is because he has just such incredible value and stories to share. And in this upcoming summit, I got him to share more detail on how to find the best podcasts to be on as a guest. Because as entrepreneurs, we need to lean into this strategy to not only build great networks, but to also get our message heard by more of our ideal audience. And that's exactly what Alex is stepping us through in this episode and here. So here are some things that you're going to learn. You're going to learn why podcast audiences are so valuable for your business, the hidden and direct ROI of guesting on other podcasts, and how to find and pitch yourself to be the best, be on the best podcast for your niche. This is going to be packed with actionable, incredible insights. So definitely don't forget to start taking notes. My name is Deidre Shen. I'm the CEO and co founder of Captcha, the fastest way to create content designed to get you more leads. And this is win the content game. Alex, welcome back. This is the get more clients from your content summit. And I think I've had you on my summit. Literally every year I've held this. So you are a special, special guest that I have on you. Special speaker two.

[00:01:45 - 00:02:05]Deidre. Thank you. I appreciate it. I can actually remember the first time we met was via email. You invited me to speak at your very first summit ever, and I was so confused by your voice and where you told me you were. You're like, I'm in New York. I'm like, you don't sound like, where are you? And I think we just really hit it off from day one. So we've been close friends ever since.

[00:02:05 - 00:02:28]So I know. Yeah, this is amazing. Okay, so I'm excited about this topic. We are going to be talking about guesting, and everyone who is watching or listening to this is they need to know exactly what you're going to be talking to them about. Even as we were running through what you were going to cover, I was like, oh, my gosh, I am going to learn so much from you. So I'm really excited to get into it. Are you ready?

[00:02:28 - 00:02:37]I am ready. I totally forgot. There's like, if someone sees my eyes wandering if they're watching instead of listening, I, like, totally forgot to grab one number. So I'm grabbing it, but I'm ready. I'm good to go.

[00:02:37 - 00:03:07]All right, cool. We're talking about podcast guesting first and foremost. And specifically, we're going to get into how to even find the best podcast to be on. And best is a subjective term, I know, but we're going to make it objective because I know exactly what you've been talking about, which I'm really excited about. But let's get into even. Why is this topic important? Why should we care about guesting and finding the best podcast to be on?

[00:03:07 - 00:05:23]Yeah. First and foremost, people listen to podcasts, and people like to listen to podcasts, right? Like, it's a medium that has been growing exponentially, especially in more recent years. And because of that, you want to go where people are, right? In addition to people listening to podcasts. That's very general. The type of people listening to podcasts, I think, is something that we really need to pay attention to. And if you look at the data of who listens to podcasts versus who, a lot of them, there's overlap, right? Watches tv, watches YouTube and all the other mediums. The people who listen to podcasts are the highest educated and they bring in the most money, and they seem to actually convert, which is interesting as well, right? People that are listening to podcasts take action on what they learn or what they hear in episodes. I think there's a lot of reasons for that. So I'll just share one really high level one, because it's not really the main point here. But if you think about it, podcasting, as my friend Alvin Brooke says, and he's a big name in podcasting, podcasting is the only form of media that doesn't demand all of your attention. You can listen to a podcast while you're cooking, cleaning, eating, working out, going for a walk, doing many other things, right? And for most of us, we actually retain information better when we're doing something else with our hands, right? Like for me, I was like, I really struggled to focus when I was a kid and a doctor that my mom took me to said, put legos in front of them when you're trying to teach them something and see how it goes and did that. And my retention went through the roof. And I think for many of us, just in this busy world that we live in, listening while we're doing something else enables us to actually learn more. And so first and foremost, I think that it's a beautiful medium that has really high caliber people listening to it and they're actually learning something from it. And the last thing I'll mention here about, like, why podcast guesting? And it's because it's a great way to develop, know, like and trust with somebody who's listening. In just a few minutes, they can tell if they like your energy. Example, Deidre. I talk fast. I talk loud. Some people will like that. Others will not like that. Right. But you could tell because of this, if you just look me up on social media or some other form of, like, media, you might not be able to gather that from me. This is just me having a conversation with a friend, and you can very much so tell if you know, like, and trust me from that in a really fast way. So I think that at the high level, those are some really big benefits to being a podcast guest.

[00:05:23 - 00:06:10]Yeah. And I want to get into because, you know, people who are attending this summit are entrepreneurs. And as entrepreneurs, we always want to get an ROI. And I know we're going to get into this, but I don't know if I'm messing up your structure, but I kind of feel like let's get into, if you don't mind, if we can get into that now. Like, even the importance of getting, like, how we can use podcast guesting to even get an ROI and how we actually reframe because there's a lot of time to, well, we'll have some hacks for people, but it's conceptually a lot of time to find the podcast to be on and then to actually do them. So is it worth the time that we're spending to find them and to be on it? What's your take on the ROI question?

[00:06:11 - 00:08:02]Yeah, this is a really valuable question, and I'm first going to go a different direction with my answer. And it said there's a hidden value in podcasting. So the hidden benefit, I just want to focus on it because at the very least, this is why I say podcast guesting is worth it. Let's pretend like you never get a return on investment from a monetary or influential perspective. Like, let's just pretend we are going to talk about that, but first, let's just pretend that doesn't happen at all. Is it still worth it, is the question. And this is where the hidden value comes in. The hidden value is you get better at speaking, you get better at articulating things. You build more connections that you would have never built. You get more opportunities to go on other stages and forms of platforms, right? Like, I was recently an event and someone put a camera right in front of me and like, hey, in 60 seconds, what do you think of this event? And in exactly 60 seconds, I gave a coherent thought that they said they wouldn't have to edit. And they said, how did you, like, did you plan for us to walk up to you and do that? And the answer was no. I've just done this a lot of times. I know how to speak in a 62nd or less sound bite, and that's from my podcast guesting efforts specifically. I'm not, like, trying to make myself sound great. The reality is, once you've done this enough times, you just learn how to communicate in a way that reciprocates really well to somebody else. So on the hidden value side of podcast guesting, there is a huge benefit on what this will actually do for you that you may not even really realize. And even if you have previous training or something like that, it's still going to be valuable. Another hidden value of it that I want to share is if someone's, like, releasing a book. I've had so many authors tell me, man, I already finished my book, and I wish I would have gone on podcast way before I finished writing it because I have more chapters I want to add. I have things I want to change just based off the interaction I had with hosts. It gives you real time feedback on what you're doing and helps you clarify your own message and your own brand. So, Deidre, that's my little rant on the hidden value side. I don't know if you have anything to add there before I jump on that. Yeah, that was the more monetary side.

[00:08:02 - 00:09:13]That second one, actually, that you mentioned. I was actually going to maybe jump in if you weren't going to address that is actually the thing that I found to be the biggest benefit in my podcasting journey is this, finding your message piece. Because, you know, I'm gonna be honest. Like, I am not. You can probably tell from all the ums and R's and the way that I fumble around with my words, I'm not the most natural orator, and sometimes I do because there's so many things that are going on in my brain, you know, because I'm a very conceptual thinker. So I struggle sometimes to bring all the pieces together when I'm just thinking about it. But when I talk it out, and this is like, you know, podcasting and guesting especially, is such a great way to just talk out those thoughts and have them come form something that is, at, to your point, coherent, but also becomes like a foundational strategy that you can then teach from. So I think that those hidden benefits I 100% have found true for myself. So I know that anyone listening, watching to this, if you just start doing this, you are definitely going to immediately get this kind of roi. So I love that. Okay, but let's get into the monetary for sure.

[00:09:13 - 00:11:29]You know, it's funny you say that real quick. I just gotta share a side note which anyone who listens to me as a guest, you know, I'm gonna have some sort of side note tangent. A fast way to do this is go to a conference. I'll never forget my first conference after launching my company. The first person walked out to me and said, what do you do? It took me five minutes to explain the second person, four minutes and 50 seconds. By the last day of the conference, I had my pitch down to like 12 seconds, and people were like, wow, that's very clear what you do, right? Because you just learn, like you're getting feedback in real time. And again, podcast guesting does that as well. So now going on to the other side of this, the actual influence you can gain or the monetary side of the return on investment you get from podcast guesting, that stuff exists, but only if you do it right. And I'm not going to go into like all the tactics right now, but I do want to just share like the big thing. And it's to have a singular call to action. You've got to have just one thing, and it's got to be easy for somebody to take action on. And what I mean by that is my name is Alex Sanfilippo. I'm not going to send anyone to alexanfilippo.com as my call to action for one very simple reason. No one knows how to say that, and you certainly can't spell it right. So if you're just listening and I'm like, go to alexsanflippo.com and let's say you try. You're like, I don't know how to spell that. Now. Like, let's imagine I'm a consultant. I want you to book a free call with me. I'd say like, book a call with alex.com, it's a little bit longer. Or call with alex.com or however, right? Something that's simple, like a $12 investment on a domain makes that call to action very simple, very clear. And so if someone's like, oh, how do I get like, an actual roi for my business. How do I grow as a coach, a consultant, or sell my services? It's got to be singular. It can't be, oh, we've got a book, we have our own podcast, we have our social media. We've got all these different things. It's got to be a singular focus that just by somebody hearing it, they can take action on it without having to get out a notepad and go, all right, it was deidre.com. one forward slash, two forward slash, dash, dash, dash, 3754. Right? Like, when you start doing all that stuff, it just doesn't work. You have to be able to say it very fast, very clear. Right. We've been talking about kind of like that honing in your message. You've got to be able to do it on the call to action side as well. And that's what I find. Converts very well.

[00:11:29 - 00:12:39]Well, case in point, call to action. There's one right there for people. But I just, I was like, as soon as you start talking about call to action, I'm like, I have to bring this up because that was exactly what the conversation we had again, when we were preparing for this. It was like, what is the one place that you want people to go to if they want to find out more? And this is what Alex is telling you here, to have one call to action. This is the way that you get the ROI from it. And I know that a ton of us, I've had this experience. I don't know what your experience has been with this Alex, where the host actually is encouraging us almost to give multiple. They'll be like, yeah, where can people find you on social media? And what's your website that people can go to? You know, is there something that you want to get? Like, I find that a little bit, I'm not going to lie a little bit awkward because I'm like, oh, like, I can tell you all those things, but are people actually going to want to, you know, like, take action on all of that? So do you even have any advice for people who might come up across this and be, how do the guests themselves take a little bit of control back in those scenarios?

[00:12:40 - 00:14:15]It's a great question. The best way to do this is just start it off that way before you even hit record. I like to just say like, hey, if you're going to be talking like, call to action, I say two things. If you're already on my software pod match, what's your affiliate link? Because I'm going to say that one. And I don't have anything else. Right. And if they don't, and I know that they're not on there, then I'll just simply say, hey, I just have one thing I mentioned. Like I don't mention my social media or anything like that. And so I just set the expectation upfront. But if they do say, okay, well, what about on social media? I just say, oh, that same link that I just mentioned that will also give you links to my social media. Anyway, you reach out, you can find me is what I always try to share just to kind of remind them, hey, it's just this one place. That's it. Right. And I find that that works really well. Now, the actual call to action you use, I'm not going to get too deep into techniques, but what else matters with this is it has to resonate with the audience. So like today, if we're talking about like podcast guesting, right, and my call, the action at the end is to sign up for my personal fitness program that I have. Like, it's not aligned and therefore it's really not going to work. Which goes back to kind of like the why of podcast guessing, like, you have to have your own why for getting into it as well, right? Is it to grow your coaching practice? Because if it is, that's what you want to get into, right? Is talking about that. So I think it's important to also remember, if I'm only sharing one thing, it needs to really resonate with this specific audience. And it can be the same call to action. It's just the way you position it, right? Because if I was like doing podcast guesting, I would, and I had a fitness program, I'd probably, this would be a stretch, but I'd probably align it with the fact of you want to feel really confident when you're on camera as a podcast guest. That's what I help you do. Just so everyone knows that's not actually what I do, but that's the way I would align it to fit this specific piece of content that we're making.

[00:14:16 - 00:14:58]Oh, gold. I'm going to get you to start creating our messages. That was really good. Okay. I want to get into guesting, the state of podcast guesting, because it's not anything new. I would say it's still a little bit nascent because I guess the podcasting industry as a whole is still a growing industry. But for people who are like, oh, man, like, I just don't know whether the whole podcast guesting thing is dying or, you know, if there are any of those kind of questions like, can you set a straight about just how alive and thriving this strategy actually is?

[00:14:59 - 00:17:50]Yeah, it's aggressive right now. And what I'm going to share here is data. And I don't mean to give another call to action. That's not what I'm trying to do here. But if you're a data person, I always like to give. I like to give references for data. So that way, you know, I'm not making up. If you go to podmatch.com forward slash report, you can see these numbers. We change them every month to update to what's actually happening in the industry. But right now, at time recording, this is about 115,000 podcasts that are looking for guests. These are independent podcasts. This pulls out, like, maybe the top 2000 biggest shows, like the celebrity shows, right? So these are independent podcast creators saying, I'm looking for guests, 115,000 shows. Now, right now, there are just over 4 million people looking to be a guest on podcast, which means on any given day, there might be 37 people reaching out to every one podcast to be on it. Now, that's not really the average, because the smaller shows, not many people reaching out to. And you go to the really big shows, like, again, the celebrity run runs. Like, we'll use Joe Rogan, who has been like, Spotify, just announced that his show is three times bigger than the number two podcast on Spotify, right? I guarantee you it's an inbox. It's not managed. Right? But anyone trying to pitch me on that show, it's in the tens of thousands per day, right? And the thing is, like, so people are like, oh, man, 4 million people trying to be on podcasts, 37 on average to every one show. There's not that many. That means it's oversaturated. I can't get in it. No, the reality is, if you don't try to pitch Joe Rogan and you try to find another podcast that's aligned with your message, it might be smaller. Then there's still a ton of opportunity, a ton of room. That's a real person wanting a real story. And the thing that I really like about the smaller podcast, and I'm saying smaller podcast, the reality is, if there's 50 people listening to a podcast, you have to remember podcast listeners like people sitting in seats. Like the data shows, it's just as valuable as being at an in person event. Maybe a little bit less than that, but it's very, very close. And because of that, isn't a room of 50 people that are your ideal audience worth talking to and getting in front of. Because I've had people say, Alex, if there's less than 500,000 people, it's not worth me being on the show. I'm like, really? I'm like, when was the last time you spoke on a stage with 500,000 people in the room? And I'm like, let me finish for you. Never, like, you have not done that. I've not heard of you. I would have heard of you if you've done that. Right. And so the thing is, we have to remember is that the smaller niche is actually where most the opportunity is. And I've personally been on, I don't know, over 500 shows, and I lost count after that. And I'm not saying that to be impressive or anything like that, but most of them are really small. But I get a really good return on investment. I get do a really good job having people go through my call to action because I go on the 500 right shows, not just shooting for the biggest ones I possibly can. So it's like a slow and steady wins the race type of thing in podcasting. And that's sort of the state of the industry. If you're going after the big ones, one, you have to fork out a ton of money. You have to be willing to wait years in some cases to make that happen. But if you're saying no, any show that's really well aligned with me, that has someone I can serve listening, I'm going to go on. You can do really well almost immediately.

[00:17:51 - 00:18:09]That's actually a really great segue into what I really curious to get your thoughts on, which is how to find the best podcasts to be on. Like, what are to you the most important factors that we need to consider and, and then how do we actually go about, you know, assessing those factors?

[00:18:09 - 00:19:48]Yeah, first and foremost, like I tell people, like, start searching on any of the player apps that you like to see. Do these podcasts exist? Example, I had somebody who joined our software pod match and they, they didn't look to see if there was any podcast in their niche. And legitimately, this is like one of the first times ever seen this happen. There wasn't, they didn't even do like a basic search. They were just like, hey, there's no podcast about this. I won't get it. It was kind of an interesting focus that they had and I'll give it to them very unique. And my advice to them was like, hey, let me give you your money back because we're very big on, like, risk free. Like, let's give you your money back. And here's how you start a podcast, because no one has that podcast, and you should probably be the one to do it. So in some cases, it might not make sense, but at first glance, the first thing you need to do is say, okay, is there anybody that's doing the type of show that I want to be on? And when you're thinking about the show that they have, you're more so thinking about the listener. It's like, is, does their shows listenership align with who I serve? And so you wanted to look around, and again, if you're like a coach, some sort of consultant or service provider of some sort, there's probably going to be quite a few shows that align with what is it you'd want. And so from there, it's just a matter of, like, step back, okay, this does exist, right? And then what you want to do is position yourself. So it's going to turn into, like, picking the right shows to be on. You need to do the internal work of, like, would these shows want me? And in some cases, people are like, no, I don't have, like, any authority in the space. I don't really have a story. It's just something I'd like to do. It's probably not going to make sense. But if you can say, you know what? I can see the value and alignment I'd have with some of these hosts. Yes, let's go for it. And so from there, like, I think that that's how you can start picking the right shows is all about that alignment between you and their listener.

[00:19:49 - 00:20:54]That is actually so. And I feel like a lot of people don't do this part of it for some reason. It's like, yeah, I just want to be on podcast. And I'll. It's kind of a spray and pray type strategy that I think a lot of people have with this. But again, you've been on a lot of podcasts. I've also been a lot of podcasts, and I'm one of the first to say that it does actually. It's time, right? It's time and energy, especially for someone like me who's an introvert. So every time I am on one, and every time I'm speaking to someone, that's like a drain on my, like, my energy, my battery. So it is a bit of an investment. But I think that if we can be smart about it from the beginning, which is find the ones that, you know, will actually have the audience that you want to reach and really put the time and effort into that and into pitching, which, by the way, for anyone who's an all access pass holder, the session that Alex is going to be doing with us is going to go deep dive into how he actually personally pitches. And if anyone knows Alex, which I think a lot of people, I feel like you're like a celebrity in the podcasting space, Alex.

[00:20:54 - 00:20:55]I don't know about that.

[00:20:56 - 00:21:00]I just want to say that because I know you get really awkward every time.

[00:21:00 - 00:21:01]It gets me every time.

[00:21:03 - 00:21:39]You want to learn from Alex how to do this, how to do this, I'm not going to say, because I know you'll also feel awkward if I say the right way, because I know that this is just your way. It's one way, but I know that everything that you do is backed by data and backed by a ton of testing that you've put into it. So we're actually going to go into the deep dive of how Alex pitches in the all Access pass session. But what you're saying, what you kind of alluded to, Alex, is like, do the work to find one like that. There's actually even shows that make sense for you. And if not, create one yourself.

[00:21:39 - 00:23:59]Yeah, if it doesn't exist, please create it, because it'll lead to a lot more opportunity than probably anything else you could do, I'd say, at this point, but going back to this whole idea of pitching the right shows, we have to be willing to say no. Like, have to. Like the other day, someone wanted to bring me on a podcast that, um, it was like a really cool show. I'm not going to get into what it was or anything like that, but it just was not aligned with what I'm sharing right now, which is all about being a podcast guest or host. It was very different. It was going to go, kind of go back to my childhood. Now I've come through some, like, different traumatic experiences, which all of us have, so I would make a good guess, right? But it's like, that's not where I can really serve right now. And if I'm using my energy to do that, I'm not going to have the energy to go where I can actually help and serve. Saying no is okay. The other thing is less is more. Like, what I want people to know is consistently being on podcasts versus getting in a big sprint and doing a whole bunch of them, like 30 podcasts in 30 days. Instead, doing twelve over twelve months is going to be much better because here's the thing, that content gets shared. And like, Deidre, like, I've been on these events and you guys share really well, and I can go back and reshare that. If I had 15 podcasts on top of yours, people are going to get fatigued and my audience be like, enough, man. Like, my goodness, calm down. Right? But the thing is, if I'm just doing one or two a month, which is my goal, then I'm able to then really proactively help share and grow that audience. And so I think that's another really important point when thinking about the shows is think about, like, I don't need to be on all of them. I just need to say, what can I do over the next few years? What's a cadence I can keep up with to keep myself there and to have this content that's getting created? So picking the right shows doesn't mean sprinting. It doesn't mean saying yes to them all. And I think that really doing even just these two things helps a lot. And the last thing I'll mention here is a lot of people get discouraged because they get into podcast guesting. And if they're using a tool like podmatch, we tell you the likelihood of you getting booked on a show. And a lot of them say, like, they have a low acceptance rate and people are interested, like, why would I even pitch they have a low acceptance rate. And that's because people that aren't aligned are pitching to be on that show because it's probably a good show. I always tell people all good shows have low acceptance rates because they don't let everybody on, they let align people on. And that's why getting your pitch right, which we'll talk about in the premium content, getting your pitch right, making sure that you truly are aligned before you even get into it, is just such an important effort that I think we really all need to get into more.

[00:24:01 - 00:24:50]That is so, so true. Yeah, I cannot. Yeah. You know, you know that I do agree, don't always agree with you, Alex, but on this, I always agree with you on this topic. Thank you. So, I know, I see that there is, it is a lot of work to go out find like there are whole agencies that you pay, people pay a lot of money on to go and find podcasts for, you know, for us to be on. But you've actually created, I call it a hack, you know, but it is actually a software, a platform that actually makes this really, really simple. So can you talk a little bit about podmatch? Just. And how this actually helps shortcut this whole process that we were talking about, about how to actually find the best podcast to be on and how effective it actually is to help people do that.

[00:24:51 - 00:26:07]Yeah, for sure. And thank you again for the opportunity and platform to be able to share about it. This whole idea of Pod match came out of necessity. When I started getting into podcasting really heavy. I found that host and guests were saying, we're having trouble finding that right fit. You know, we're talking about, like, picking the right shows. It's also picking the right guest, and people are having trouble making that connection. And so that's when we set out to create podmatch. And so podmatch.com, simply put, is a software that connects guests and hosts for interviews based off of what you have on your media one sheet. If you're a guest and the host, how they describe their ideal podcast guest and their listener. That way it can help you understand if you're aligned at all and it can put you together. You can message back and forth in the platform. You never have to exchange an email if you don't want to or anything like that. And it just makes it really simple. And for lack better term, it works like a dating app, but instead of connecting for dates, it connects you for podcast interviews. And so that's podmatch.com. and Deidre, like, for, especially for your audience, like I said, like a risk free opportunity to try it. It's not a free service because it's a premium network, right? But it is risk free. If you try and you don't love it, you respond to any email we send, it's us. It's probably going to be me. We refund and do all that because we want to make sure it truly adds value and serves. We want to help you find the right shows, not just take some of your money. Right. We want to make sure they truly serve. So again, thank you for the opportunity to share about podmatch.

[00:26:07 - 00:28:04]Yeah, of course. And if anyone's not on podmatch, what are you doing? First of all, get on podmatch. But I can 100% attest to the fact that, you know, we capture is kind of, you know, we model a lot of what we do based on what Alex has done because we just love the community he's built. We just, we love the literal tears and sweat that you and Alicia and Jesse pour into it. We also have three co founders in California cap show, just like you guys have three co founders. And we know that whoever's getting back to us is it's one of the co founders. It's insane. It's crazy. And that's how we operate as well at CaptchA. So thank you Alex, for being such a good friend and for being such a great supporter of Captcha. Just like how we will always be great supporter of podmatch. So everyone, what are you waiting for? Try it risk free podmatch.com dot and for all the all access pass holders, we'll see you on the next session. Alex is going to do a deep dive on how he pitches to be a guest on podcast, so we'll see you there. Bye. Wow. How good was that? If you've ever wondered whether podcast guesting is worth your time, well, now you know. It definitely is. From the hidden value of honing your message to landing the right podcasts that bring real Roi, the strategies that Alex just shared are invaluable. And the great news is that podcast guesting has never been easier, especially with a tool like podmatch to help. Which, by the way, you can try risk free@podmatch.com. and don't forget to register for the upcoming get more clients from your content summit so that you do not miss out on all of the actionable insights and strategies being shared from over 30 experts that will help you create content that sells, grow your audience, and then lead that audience to buy from you. So what do you have to do? Register free now@capture.com. summit that is capshow.com summit. My name is Deidre Shan and as always, stay intelligently lazy.