135. Gamify Your Podcast Growth Score Your Way to Increased Downloads

[00:00:00 - 00:01:45]On this podcast, I've been featuring various expert speakers on a variety of topics that they're going to be covering at the get more clients from your content summit. Topics ranging from creating content that sells, growing an audience, and then leading that audience to buy from you. And if you want free tickets to the get more clients from your content summit, then grab them right now @capsho.com. summit today, you are in for a treat. I am beyond excited because we've got the one and only Adam Schaeuble talking to us about his podcast first marketing framework. If you've been wondering how to turn your podcast into a client generating machine, then you're in the right place. Okay. Adam is going to be sharing his secrets, like why making your podcast the heart of your business compels clients to come to you. How to position yourself as the expert with his two thirds rule and the one small tweak that you can make with your podcast to turn listeners into paying clients faster than ever. Boy, oh boy, we are going to be getting into some absolute gold in this episode. My name is Deidre Tshien CEO and co founder of Capsho, the fastest way to create content design to get you more leads. And this is win the content game. Adam Shively, welcome. Big, big welcome. Hugs. In fact, virtual hugs on the welcome to the get more clients from your content summit. This is the first summit that you have been on with us, and I can't wait to. I already know that this is gonna be so good that you're gonna be on, like, every other summit after this.

[00:01:46 - 00:01:54]Well, I don't wanna be on. I mean, every, like, every summit. Not every other. Like, I don't want even want there to be a break. I don't wanna be on every other one. Yeah. No, no.

[00:01:54 - 00:01:54]Every summer.

[00:01:54 - 00:01:56]Every single summit.

[00:01:56 - 00:01:58]Every single summit. Yes.

[00:01:58 - 00:01:59]I'm excited.

[00:01:59 - 00:02:02]Yeah. We've written it in blood. It's done. It's a done deal.

[00:02:02 - 00:02:03]It's a pact.

[00:02:03 - 00:02:33]Awesome. Okay, cool. So I already know this because we were talking before about the topic that you're gonna be talking about. And this is so valuable for everyone who knows that, a, they need to create content, and b, that they need more clients. Because, you know, we're running a business. We all do. And you have a really, really amazing way of connecting the two of actually going. Okay, well, how do we actually go content to clients? Right. Um, and you've actually called this framework, correct me if I'm wrong, the podcast first marketing.

[00:02:34 - 00:02:34]Yes.

[00:02:34 - 00:02:35]Framework.

[00:02:35 - 00:03:37]Yeah. So, yeah, with podcast versus marketing, that's a framework that I created. Um, not on purpose. Um, like, as I figured things out, like, I started podcasting back in 2015 with the goal of building an online business at that time in the fitness industry. And I did everything wrong, but I reverse engineered every single thing I did wrong to figure out how to do it the correct way. And that's what I figured out was, like, I'm not good at online marketing, traditional online marketing. I'm not good at paid ad strategies, but I am good at podcasting. I love podcasting. I don't, you know, I will spend time on social media if it's done in the right way. But I just wanted to live in a world where I'm like, what if I could just send people to my show first, let that magic kind of happen, and then clients come out the other side. So I was obsessed with that for, like, five years. And that's the system that I built. And that's what we're going to unpack today. If other people are out there, like, I would love to just really focus on my podcast content and have clients pop out the other side of the oven, then this is going to be your jam.

[00:03:37 - 00:04:28]This is it. And it actually reminds me, I am a big believer in, I mean, I love podcasts as well. The big, big reason why is because create so much. No, like and trust. And I always talk about, you know, the book over subscribe by Daniel Priestley and how he talks about the seven hour rule, you know, that people have to kind of hang out with you, which includes listening to you for at least 7 hours before they, like, are like, let me give you my money. So that's kind of why I love podcasting. So I think that Adam, you and you've cracked it. I feel like you've really cracked the nut of, like, as you said, the testing and learning and tweaking and really going, okay, how can we actually make this medium that we know conceptually is the thing that will create that? No liking, trust. Like, how do we actually effectively use this medium to get, as you said, clients at the end of it? So I am so excited to jump into it. Are you ready? Let's get.

[00:04:28 - 00:04:28]I'm ready.

[00:04:28 - 00:04:29]Should we do it? Okay, cool.

[00:04:29 - 00:04:31]Let's dance. Let's do it. All right.

[00:04:32 - 00:04:39]Okay, so let's get into podcast first. Marketing a little bit about it. But let's get into. I just really want to get into the strategy, so take it away, please.

[00:04:39 - 00:06:21]Well, I think it all starts with what I call the two thirds content rule. Uh, this is where I really take a hard left from the traditional podcast industry. So many people start a podcast, and they just assume, oh, Joe Rogan experience. I sit, and I have three hour long conversations with other people. Hopefully, they're famous people. That's the way to grow a podcast. And I'm the guy up there going, if you're a service provider and your main goal is to get clients, the interview is the least important form of content that you could create. And people just lose their mind on social media. When I post stuff like that, like what? My mind has actually blown. So my reasoning behind this is, I see so many service providers that come to me, and they go, I'm not getting any clients for my podcast. Why, oh, why? I go, let me guess, you only do interviews. Yeah, that's my podcast. I go, okay, if you only do interviews, you're viewed as the person that interviews experts. You're not viewed as the expert, and that's a problem when it comes to sales. Gary just said, I gotta spend 7 hours getting to know you. They don't get to know you if you only do interviews. You're just the person up there asking questions. So two thirds of our content, the two thirds content rule, needs to feature you as the expert, aka solo episodes, what I call coaching style episodes, audience Q and a episodes. You need to be the featured expert on your own show for two thirds of your content. And I have people flip this switch, sometimes begrudgingly, and I convinced them to do it, and all of a sudden, they start seeing client conversion, listener to client conversion happen. So really, if you don't take anything else away and don't do anything else that I say, if you just do this, good things are gonna happen. So that's. That's where we start with podcast first marketing.

[00:06:22 - 00:06:54]And I know we're gonna get into this because, um, we, you know, immediately what comes to mind is like, but I just don't think I'm interesting enough people want to listen to me, or I don't know if the episodes I'm gonna create are gonna be good enough, or I don't have it. Endless amount of ideas. So let's get into that. Like, how do we actually a come up with the ideas that make sense but also not get. Not lose ourselves in the doubt and the discomfort that might come with, like, oh, gosh, like, people are gonna have to listen to me. That. That's uncomfortable.

[00:06:54 - 00:09:59]Yeah. Well, first off, I would like to acknowledge that this is very normal and typical to have that kind of doubt and those thoughts in our headland. But here's the deal. I'll refer to your audience as pod pals. Cause that's what I'm talking to the pod pals out there. So to all my pod pals out there that are all nervous about the solo episodes, if you're a service provider, people are already paying you for coaching, consulting programs, products and services. Have confidence in that. Like, you, you can't go out and charge somebody $2,500 for six weeks of coaching and then be like, but no one really would want to hear me talk on my own podcast. I'm like, no, like, they want you. They want. They. They're coming to learn from you. You are an expert. So let's level up that confidence. And every single person, I'm like, here's the great thing about podcasting. You don't have to live stream it, record it, you know, send it to me. If I'm coaching with them, I'll. I'll give you the green light if need be. And then they put it out, and they've never had more audience engagement. People are like, this is awesome. I didn't know that you knew all this. Like, all. And you start putting out a string of weekly solo episodes like this, or just apply the two thirds rule, all of a sudden, people start reaching out, how do we work together? Discovery call. Start lighting up. But you have to get out there and just test it. You have to be unafraid to. You can always go back and delete the episode if you wanted to. If it's so embarrassing and it just ruins your business, which it won't, you could delete it if you wanted to. So that's the first hurdle we have to get over. And then people are like, well, what do I have to, you know, how do I think of things to say? And I'm like, all right, let's, again, not overthink this. So let's say you're in the fitness industry and you've got some sort of, like, weight loss boot camp, or, like, let's say, like, intermittent fasting boot camp product that you sell. Well, let's step back from that and go. You probably have four or five foundational principles that you teach inside of your course. Well, let's break down each one of those in a solo episode. And then people are like, but I'm selling that. I'm like, but I don't care because people will pay you for the implementation, the correct implementation. Like, I teach everything that people pay me for on my podcast, but they pay me to help them implement it correctly. So if you're selling something, you can bring that in and create so episodes out of that. And that's our content. And I think you should have ten or twelve so episodes that you do every single year because people won't always go back in the wayback machine and listen. Like, I've got 511 live episodes of podcasting business school. I don't expect Deirdre when she first finds me to go back. Well, episode one, let's start the journey. Like, that's not going to happen. She'll probably start at 511 and work backwards, maybe the last 100 episodes if she's really obsessed with it. The superfan. So there are repeatable topics that we need to put out there. So that helps a lot with solo episodes. Think of it like an audio course. If you have ten modules of an audio course, what would you do? Ten minutes or less? A lot of times for these solos might tend to be 15 or 20 minutes, and we can definitely knock those out. They do not have to be as long as an interview. Do not hold your solo episodes to the length standard of a typical interview. That's kind of the finishing point on that one.

[00:09:59 - 00:11:09]I guess what you're saying is actually, even for me personally, there's such big unlocks because I think so many times we get held back by these, you know, that voice in her head that's like, I'm going to talk about talk for 30 minutes. I'm not going all 40 minutes or an hour on my own. You know, how am I going to actually come up with an endless amount of content? But you're so right. Like, if we can just step away, like, get, remove ourselves, I think, from the equation, which I know sounds really counter intuitive, but. And just look at it from, like, actually, what do people actually do and how do they actually listen to podcasts? It's so right that, you know, we should just be repeating, and I've actually loved repeating things like training and stuff that I used to never be able to do. That was a big blocker for me. I was like, I've already done this topic. I can't do it again. But I don't know what you found out. But actually, when I've done it again, a, it solidifies it even for me, even more so. People who might have heard it already is like, oh, my gosh, thank you so much. I needed that refresher. And it helps anyone new who's listening as well.

[00:11:10 - 00:11:58]Yes. And I don't necessarily advocate, like, take the old recording and re air it. I like re recording. Adding a new flavor, a new spin, a new tip. You know, you evolve. We all evolve with our frameworks and our foundational topics. But just like you said, people heard it once, but it wasn't the right time. And then now they heard a second time, like, oh, my God, this was the right time in my life to hear this. And again, we owe it to the new people that are just listening to our show. We can't expect them to go back to episode 242, and you've got 3000 episodes. Like, oh, I've already covered this one. Go find it. Uh, like that. We just. We owe it to our audience. If we have the best stuff, you need to have kind of a greatest hits that we come back to every single year. And, you know, like I said, ten or twelve episodes is typically what I focus on with that.

[00:11:58 - 00:12:47]Oh, so good. So good. Okay. All right. I know that you have another big unlock, actually, and this one I have actually loved talking to you about. So for anyone who missed the couple of episodes I had with Adam, but I actually did three episodes in total with you on your limited series podcast framework, on the win the content game podcast. And we started talking about the concept of testimonials. And I think we all conceptually know, because even when you were talking about it, Adam, at the time, like, I know. I know how. How important testimonials are, but I needed you to look at me through the virtual camera, through the camera, and be like, teacher, you start getting testimonials and use them on your podcast. So, can you talk to us about the power of adding testimonial audios to the podcast?

[00:12:47 - 00:14:57]Yeah. This is one of my favorite topics because I feel like testimonials are that, like, afterthought thing. Like, it's like, you know, if you're an athlete and you. You play the game and then you're just tired and you just want to go eat food, you know? And, like, that's how we are. We. We people pay us. We do a six week program, we produce an amazing result, and we're just tired. I just want to lay on the couch for a little bit. But the job is not complete until we collect a testimonial. And the testimonial helps us level up our expert positioning and sell more of that thing. Like, it's so, so important. So I don't consider a program complete until I collect a testimonial from somebody you know, and I will chase people down, and that is normal. Let me tell you, I hardly ever have somebody like, here's the link. Would love for you to do this. And I give him a script, and, you know, and they're like, oh, 30 seconds later, I usually have to remind my clients they're produced. Like, I'm helping these people make thousands of dollars, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars, and it takes me six tries to get them to record a 62nd testimonial. Like, I'm like, hate to be badgering you, but I really like this testimonial takes 60 seconds. Just say the words, hit the button. Say the words. And so that's normal. It is a little bit of a pain sometimes, but totally worth it. So what, you know, earlier we talked about spending time, 7 hours, hanging out, consuming our content. What if that seven hour block was all consumed with 20 minutes solo episodes? And with each solo episode, you include an audio testimonial. So then we start talking about exposures. So instead of having seven hour long interviews where we have no expert positioning, we have 21 solo episodes where each one of those 21 has an individual testimonial as well. So they hear 21 testimonials, 21 examples of us talking on something that we're great at, talking about expert positioning. That experience of that 7 hours of hanging out together is totally different. That's why I see people convert over from being a listener to a client much faster in that 7 hours because of adding testimonials, doing solo episodes following my two thirds content rule. It's just like Rocket fuel for that conversion process.

[00:14:57 - 00:15:21]So good. And for anyone who does have the all access pass in the second session, we're really going to deep dive into almost the anatomy of an episode that converts and how sort of Adam kind of thinks about stitching the things together to get someone to become a client, whether that's. And maybe they're not a client yet, maybe they're just a lead somewhere. They're just. They're going somewhere in a bucket where Adam can then convert them.

[00:15:21 - 00:15:21]Right.

[00:15:21 - 00:16:45]So we're going to talk about that in the deep dive session. But I do want to talk about right now the, you know, so you kind of said, okay, great. So we already know for podcast first marketing, we need to be focusing on us as the expert. Okay, how do we create two thirds of content from ourselves only? Okay, that's scary enough, but remove the fear and just do it. Adam was right. You told us how to come up with ideas, and really it's just like, as you said, ten to twelve episodes in a year. And we're just gonna like the topics, and we're not gonna, as you said, like, replay them, but they're gonna be the same topics that we come back to over and over again, which makes it so much easier for us to not have to think about, well, what else is new and exciting that we need to talk about? And then he. And then Adam's mentioned, and one of the most powerful things is actually adding testimonials and actually in a deep dive session as well. Adam, let's go into how you actually do collect the testimonials, because I know that this can be scary for some people to actually do the ask and to be that, quote, unquote, annoying person, I think, please, please give a testimonial. So we're gonna. But you're gonna show us how it is that you make the ask and, you know, do it in a, in a really cool way. But I want us to round out the podcast versus marketing. And you mentioned that, you know, the last part is really about creating this content campaign. Michael, can you talk about this?

[00:16:45 - 00:20:22]Yes. And, um, this concept is, it's basically like creating an audio funnel. All right. Which, uh, we all, in the marketing world, we love funnels, you know, uh, we're putting the fun back in funnels with a little podcast content campaign site. So what I do is I go, okay, what is the next thing I want to promote? Is it a free workshop? Is it something I'm selling? Is it discovery calls? You know? But usually it's like, okay, I'm doing a free workshop coming up, and that's four weeks away. So with a content campaign cycle, what we're going to do is look at the topic of that workshop. Let's say it is about social media marketing. So some sort of, like, social media marketing boot camp thing that you're doing. Well, what I want to do is look at three to five weeks of content. Leading up to that. I want to marry the topic of my episodes with the topic of the workshop or the thing im selling and go, okay, social media marketing, one week, lets talk about each social media platform and whats working best or something like that. Lets chop it up and really marry the content so that people listen to that episode. Theyre like, ooh, Instagram hacks, ive never tried before. Lets listen to this episode. And then we're on there talking about, oh, this, this new workshop is coming up. So the, the earbuds and eyeballs are attracted to that, that audio. Then that exact ideal person who's an ideal fit for the workshop, hears it and can lean into and sign up for that workshop. But I also will marry the testimonial, especially if it's a thing that I'm selling like a paid boot camp. I've got testimonials, audio testimonials from people that have done that and gotten a result from it. So at the beginning of these episodes, it's like here is an audio clip from somebody thats already done this and gotten a result. Heres a topic thats really attractive to somebody thats interested in this topic. Heres a workshop or heres this paid thing that you need to go sign up for. So we marry all that together. And thats why I call it kind of a content campaign cycle. Like were marrying the testimonial, the offer that were directing to, and the content itself. Its all in alignment so that if youre interested in a, youre also be interested in b and c and at all. I like to do if its a free thing or something that ive launched more than once or something thats evergreen, ill do a three week cycle. If its a brand new offer, especially a paid offer that ive never launched before, ill extend that out to four or five weeks of content where I marry it all together. So a little bit longer and that can be a little bit intimidating. If that doesnt make sense, do a shorter one. Some people are like, I just cant string it out that long and talk about the same sort of genre for five weeks. Um, but for the most part, like, again, if it's like an intermittent fasting thing, it could be like, you know, uh, beginning. A beginning tip for intermittent fasters, mistakes that people make during intermittent fasting, what to eat when you're, you know, after you intermittent fast or, or whatever, it kind of break things down a little bit. But that's, I really love doing this. You know, the best person that I see doing this in the world is Amy Porterfield. If you listen to online marketing made easy, she goes in more like 90 day cycles. She sells, you know, three ish things per year. And you can tell if you really pay attention, like, okay, shes talking about similar things a lot and having even guests in on certain topics. You can see her leaning towards a thing. Its like, I know digital marketing academy is going to be, its going to be, digital course academy is going to be launching soon because shes talking a lot about online courses and online businesses. So you can see that coming. So yeah, that's what I look at when I talk about a content campaign cycle okay, cool.

[00:20:22 - 00:20:41]And so for people who, let's say that don't do campaigns regularly, so, I mean, you work with a lot of service providers, and typically a lot of their funnel really is just like, come speak to me, come book a call type thing. So what's your advice for people who have more of, like, an evergreen call to action?

[00:20:41 - 00:22:15]Okay, so what I like to do, if I'm not in an active campaign of, like, I'm pushing towards a free workshop or a thing that I'm selling, I always go with discovery call. So that's what I promote. And so there's no set campaign on that. It's kind of like the in between campaign filler where in the intro and the outro, I'm talking about discovery calls. Like, that's the main thing I'm pushing through, and that it's kind of boring. It works so freaking well when you, when you marry this whole concept together. Like, my main KPI that I track, key performance indicator is how many discovery calls do I do every single month? If I do 15 or more discovery calls per month, I I can guarantee I'm hitting all time best sales months. And, like, that's something that a lot of people downplay. They're like, oh, I want to promote a lead magnet. And you can definitely do that. And do, you can do content campaign cycles around lead magnets. I've got my podcast growth scorecard. I'll do a three episode series where I'm talking about podcast growth. I'll promote my scorecard for three weeks in a row. And that's a content campaign cycle that's evergreen. Like, that's always available. So. And again, talking about marrying it together, I go, okay, my podcast growth scorecard is a freebie that leads into my down low growth club, which is a paid off or a membership. So I'm going to take testimonials from my download. Growth club members stick at the beginning of the episodes where I'm talking about podcast growth and then advertising the podcast growth scorecard. So, again, it all marries up, and it's easy to come together with, like, a three week content campaign for something like that. That's evergreen.

[00:22:17 - 00:22:26]So awesome. Okay. Well, that segues really nicely into, actually the podcast growth scorecard because the freebie that you have for everyone attending this summer. So can you tell us a little bit about the scorecard?

[00:22:26 - 00:24:33]Yes. So a big pain point in podcasting that I see is we get in our heads about podcast marketing. We spin our wheels a lot. We do a lot of effort. But here's my favorite quote of all time, and I'll try not to mess this up. It's called Pearson's Law. What is measured improves what is measured and reported improves more rapidly. That's Pearson's Law. So, with this scorecard, we start by measuring and gamifying podcast marketing. And this marries so well with cap show. Like, I got to just, you know, share my love for cap show because it fits so nicely with this whole methodology. So, with my podcast girl scorecard, you are rewarded points or for marketing your podcast, you get five points when you release a new podcast episode. Five points. Awesome. You create a carousel post, three points. You do an ad on a Facebook ad or Instagram ad, three points per day. You go live on social media, three points for each live. So it's each different way. You release a video, you release a reel, three points per reel. You guess on someone else's podcast, five points. Like gamify, all the things we know we're supposed to be doing. And then I go, all right, listen, if you can score 40 points a week on this card, I guarantee you'll see your downloads go up. Because I've had so many people go through this, and I've seen so many people. I've got the data that's like, if you can cross the 40 point per week threshold, everybody's numbers go up because you're effectively marketing your podcast. And it's just a Google sheet. It's totally free. And it's something that, like I said, it's worked. Like, it's so good that I make all my paying members use it also. I'm like, you have to use it. If you pay me, you have to use this. There's no option. Like, it's. It's that good. So, yeah, I gamified podcast marketing, and it works extremely well. And I see people, you know, ten extra downloads off this free freebie scorecard. And they tell me they. They. I get the emails all the time. Like, wow, I went from this to this, and it's just because I got organized with, uh, the scorecard system. So, yeah, check it out. I'd love. I'd love to hear your results.

[00:24:33 - 00:26:40]Yes. Get it. I mean, anyone on here. We all want to grow our audience, right? Let's just. Let's. Is that okay? Is that okay to say we all want to grow our audience. We all want to make money. So if you want to do that, just get in on this podcast growth scorecard and start doing the things right. Like, this is. I mean, we. I love learning. And I love speaking to people like Adam because he just knows his stuff. But at the end of the day, we have to actually implement. And you know, what he's offering here for free, by the way, is going to actually help us really easily implement what we need to to grow our audience. So thank you for offering that, Adam, for everyone. So we'll leave the link with that in down below somewhere. Okay, cool. So if you are an all access pass ticket holder, then just hang on to your seat slash hat. I don't know what the saying is. I always mark up sayings, but I think you have to hang on to something because Adam is going to do a deep dive on the anatomy of a podcast episode that actually converts. So he's going to take a step by step. Like this is how you put it together, this is how you lead from one thing to the next so that you actually can not only increase retention of listeners, but also actually get them doing the action that you want them to take. So we're going to deep dive into that. And as a bonus, I want him to also talk a little bit about how he actually asked for those testimonials. So, all access passholders, you're in luck. We're going to be doing that, going into that. And for everyone else, thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you on the next session. Bye. Wow, what a session. Huge, huge. Thanks to Adam Schaeuble for breaking down his podcast first marketing strategy. It's time to stop playing small and start turning your podcast into clients, wouldn't you say? Check out the links in the show notes to connect and learn more from Adam. If you want even more of this goodness on learning about creating an offer and content for that offer, growing your audience and converting them into clients, then you'll want to join us at the get more clients from your content summit. You can register@captcho.com summit. My name is Deidre Tshien and as always, stay intelligently lazy.